MINUTES OF A WORK SESSION HELD BY THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL OF THE TOWN OF CHAPEL HILL, NORTH CAROLINA, TUESDAY, MAY 25, 1993 AT 7:30 P.M.

Mayor Broun called the session to order at 5:4_ p.m. Council Members in attendance were Joyce Brown, Joe Capowski, Mark Chilton, Barbara Powell, Joe Herzenberg and Art Werner.

WCH--called on Rosemary Waldorf and members of Task Force;

Darren Steen--resident of Chapel Hill for past ten years or so; in sales for First Security Alarm Company; get to see aftermath of what discussing for past nine months; need to do something about proposals--

Caroline Becker--retired associate professor from UNC--favor more law enforcement officers;

Rebecca Clark--long-time Town resident; hope will accept proposal for law enforcement proposals;

Paul Light (?)--

Diana Robinson

Rosemary Waldorf--looking forward to answering any questions; very much appreciate consent for alternative prosecution grant; will do everything possible as a committee to make it work;

Broun--thanks to committee for making it work; possibly list out proposals--

Waldorf--support computer system for Police Department; hope it will materialize soon; a few additional recommendations concerning Merritt Mill Road; hope will have separate Police and Fire Departments; can't solve drug problem; make it difficult for them to do business here;

Ralph Pendergraph--think group is working hard to understand what is going on and what capabilities are; talked with investigators; assign people long term to deal with problems; Broun--mirrored priorities? Pendergraph--investigators--number one staff priority; don't restrict work to solely narcotics work;

JBr--Committee has done a very good job--any cost estimates? Waldorf--were for some and not for others; WCH--about $90,000 total; JBr--police dogs? Waldorf--$6,000 each; officers already on staff--new officers not needed;

Joe C--thank you for work; current budget proposal--which included? WCH--lighting and computer system, crisis counseling; Broun--transition for Police and Fire included in '94-'95 and '95-'96? WCH--correct; JCap--two more autos for narcotics investigators? WCH--at least one; AW--some estimate adding two investigators could have how much impact? Waldorf--estimate of 25% reduction in crimes; drug trafficking contributes to other types of crime; AW--good bang for buck incremental cost; Ralph P--priorities may change--apply enough pressure with two; AW--priority still be more officers? Ralph P--not sure at present; patrol still has dual responsibilities--deal with issues--in and out; BBP--was not here for presentation; very interesting--Waldorf--see things you can't get in a memorandum; BBP--agree; Waldorf--Durham asked for 53 and will likely get 38 officers; BBP--neighborhood concept; what would it take to get it in place? Ralph P--defer to Captain Jarvies; first step--transition; some neighborhoods require more staffing than others; do need to direct more resources to problem; Gregg J--full community-oriented policing program is expensive proposition; start from task force basis; where impact can be felt immediately; not enough continuity in public safety today; Mr. Light--public safety officer--not a good idea; most Towns have this type of system; make life a lot easier--division is wearing two hats--very unfortunate; JA--also expensive to change back; Waldorf--mostly done; Light--very expensive in long-run not to do so; WCH--accomplish restoration within a five-year time frame; Mr. Light's comments are well-taken; number and type of crimes experienced; concentrate training and teamwork; carry out in next two fiscal years; Waldorf--policing via community and public safety--very different; public safety--constantly split; community policing--reallly different situation; JBr--Fire Department impact? WCH--add six persons to Fire Department staff--additional staffing is desirable; more important to separate departments to maintain effectiveness; AW--what is this equivalent too in additional full-time police officers? WCH--difference is amount of time responding to fire calls and amount of time training; Ralph P--look at base number for six rotational slots--at least six have to be dually trained--approximately two 28-day cycles per year each; no real continuity in police assignments; WCH--when all aggregated--wind up with six people; Ralph P--hard to analyze since so long since had separate programs; total standing reserve for Police Department; try to compensate with reserve program; offset loss of extra officers in fire station;

JCap--what changes or improvements on Merritt Mill Road? Wladorf--really dark corner at Merritt Mill Road and Franklin Street--quite dark by Crook's Corner; five light poles; Clark--Town intent on keeping trees; on side of Crook's Corner--people park all along streets; JCap--things in budget--lighting for Merritt Mill Road? WCH--can add funds for this; not much difficulty if poles in place and lighting system in place; BBP--Sunset Drive by Rosemary Street--very dark area; Rosemary Waldorf--mostly looking at downtown area; list is not complete; JA--looked at costs for lighting improvements? WCH--about $3,000 needs to be added for lighting; some lights can be added during the course of this year; some lighting also needed on private property; JA--cost of narcotics officers? Broun--$46,000 for one including cost of an auto; roughly $90,000 total; JA--helpful to have objective group of citizens evaluate basic services; Waldorf--many weapons in neighborhoods; officers feel discouraged about what they do; make drug business difficult in Town; Broun--thanked the committee for work;

AW--lets get consensus now on proposals; Broun--concur; AW--service that people are willing to pay for; Broun--lighting, computer and crisis counselor included; maybe obligation to go ahead with narcotic investigators; WCH--can do more if have teams of two officers; grateful for one or two officers; JBr--where could we get money for this without raising taxes--think this is an important priority; WCH--list of possible reductions totalling about $700,000; AW--rather have list of what we want and what we don't want; JA--asking Manager to give us his priorities from list; WCH--recommendation is that cuts not be made--some could be done without harm; add police officers at additional cost; JCap--if total entire list--$180 to $190,000; crisis counselors, narcotics officers, computers, dogs; WCH--correct; JCap--not recommending $186,000 for joint department? WCH--correct; JCap--believe future years will be better? WCH--no;

MC--does budget indicate will have to pay about $15,000 for towing with offseting revenue of $10,000; Ralph P--do lose money on towing; some cases we receive no compensation; MC--fee is more or less an exact cost? Ralph P--correct; Ralph P--towing cost? Gregg J--ranges between $35 and $60;

WCH--could prepare an updated listing for a future work session; Broun--may get some thoughts out this evening; WCH--Transportation Planner to carry out elements of work of TBoard; all elements of transportation planning; JA--how many trans. planners? WCH--total of three;

PCrotts--question at last session about benefits for part-time employees; 20-37.5 hours per week on a permanent organized basis; most other organizations have pro-rated benefits; Broun--any questions of Pat C? JCap--54 part-time employees? PC--about right; JCap--cost of fringe packages compared to University? PCrotts--would have to calculate this; JCap--starts only after 30 hours per week; does university have to budget funds? WCH--yes; Broun--only difference is in area of health benefits; WCH--not a practical way to make a dollar for dollar comparison;

WCH--transformer went out down the street; one closest to us is still out; at least 45 minutes outage; hope Council will consider when to schedule another session; Broun--might have a session on Tuesday, June 15th at 5:45 p.m.? JA--prefer 7:30 p.m.; Broun--allright for staff? WCH--yes, June 15th at 7:30 p.m.

Bruce H--percentage of recycling budget--did arithmetic of looking at budget; about $490,000; total contribution is about 13.6%; JCap--does Town pay 13.6% of landfill budget? Bruce H--no; this is percentage of recycling budget; JBr--Town does not have recycling budget? BH--correct; JBr--costs for siting landfill plus $505 million for landfill operation; BH--have never done a cost-benefit analysis for landfill; JBr--no estimate of possible cost savings? WCH--continue to need landfill for as long as can project; no idea how much land costs will be for landfill; hope to have better figures in six to nine months; JBr--some communities reducing waste by as much as 50-60%; BH--office paper recycling--did an informal poll of over 70 businesses; 64% indicated that they recycle office paper; service primarily provided by the private sector; other things private sector is doing; also businesses--let public know that these sources are available; BH--no options for recycling oil at one time--when service began; has become quite a popular service; JBr--might be that people do not know about them; also collecting other items in a shed; work with Durham Habitat for Humanity; BH--swap program--a lot goes on at green box sites; some preliminary discussions with non-profits;

Broun--rearyard refuse collection; Bruce H--to achieve savings--reduce number of positions; collect with slightly over six residential routes; reduce a crew--net savings of $58,000; no employees available for brush or bulky item collection; JCap--question on truck--eliminate purchase of truck? BH--yes sir; JCap--once per week rearyard collection--avoid buying a truck next year? BH--yes; BBP-how many in crew? BH--three; truck would cost about $75,000; truck and personnel cost about $103,000 in first year; BBP--would hate to see us save anything on this end--cutting three people; save in one area but cost us in another; JBr--have not talked about letting people go--this would be handled through attrition? BH--correct; JBr--relate to memo about changes in collection systems; BH--looking at current system and collection alternatives; look at costs inherent in system and other aspects of solid waste management; also look at incentive and disincentive systems; possibly make later changes more difficult; JBr--possible timeframe? BH--hope to have three governing bodies review scope of work before summer; anticipate six months to get work done--perhaps by mid-winter; WCH--consistent with LOG proposed timeframe;

BH--carts at curbside; spoke to Hillsborough and Carrboro--neither collects hard data; both said fairly common for them to be left out; follow-up actions taken as necessary; citations are fairly rare; only one in Carrboro and none in Hillsborough; BH--voluntnary roll cart system; outlined advantages and disadvantages of system; believe operations could become more complex; rare for us to have continuity from week to week;

BBP--curbside once per week with carts--savings through less staff? BH--yes and number of vehicles; BBP--problems with containers in areas with no sidewalks? BH--experience with Town and other areas--no serious problems with non-curb and guttered streets; BBP--possibly have an experimental period; what about this proposal? BH--experiment in neighborhoods with once per week curbside--do not recommend continuance of program; system not used much nationally; BBP--when experiments begin? BH--generally around September 1st; give reports during budget deliberations; JBr--Hillsborough has curbside rather than rollout carts--not as noticeable as large containers--not unattractive or noticeable; JA--how different? JBr--no uniform carts; will likely have consultant's recommendation by time of possible new pilot program; WCH--consultant to make comparison of different types of systems; work to be completed in time for next budget cycle; JBr--roll carts--some citizens have inquired about possibility of purchasing these carts; BH--can return them--some costs associated with shipping; possibly make alternative recommendations for value; WCH--need about 100 for recycling program and purchase another 400 carts; retain some for our own use; foolish to send them back; JCap--what was initial cost of each? Gayle W--about $50 each; JCap--private citizen--how much would one cost? Gayle W--about $80;

JA--disappointed not greater savings with once per week rearyard collection; WCH--suggest pilot program before doing this Town-wide; would also virtually eliminate yard waste program; JA--consultant's study--mandatory that we agree on a system? WCH--no; believe almost no overlap between types of systems; Carrboro and Chapel Hill may have some areas of cooperation; JA--increase in expenses for buying certain types of trucks; BH--once weekly curbside would give possibility to reduce crews from three to two persons; JCap--rollout proposal--Town would own carts--if break, what would happen? BH--repair them; JCap--how know cart broken? BH--reported; carts don't break very often; JCap--Carrboro's experience; Wilson--one damaged cart--hit by car--back in use; BH-would not anticipate adding staff to repair carts; Broun--tough issue to come to grips with; once a week--no savings--does not make sense to do this; rollcarts or backyard pick-up; giving own opinion; Broun--next question is whether we are ready for rollout garbage--do have a consensus on this; would like to do more in Parks and Police; may still have problem with half-cent sales tax; stay with backyard--sense that community is willing to spend extra money--give it to them; others may differ with this interpretation;

JHz--community may prefer system we have in general; people in pilot project area do like rollout carts; liked Art Dodd's suggestion--people willing to keep carts; some people willing to pay more for a lower level of service; JA--Mr. Dodd--view his situation as a special case--thinks everyone should have a rollout cart; think we should stick with what we have; really a matter of level of service; Joe C--once versus twice per week backyard pickup--must be some structural flaw with once per week pickup; balanced with summer heat in the Town and total amount of garbage and recycling; costs $37 per household--people are willing to pay for it; one out of eight homes--leave carts at curbside; let's stay with what we have; AW--very vocal and persuasive subgroup--adamant suport of twice per week rearyard pickup; most would prefer to have taxes cut--really easy budgets in this Town for many years; think it will continue to be a difficult situation; one of few places with chance for significant savings; would like to see changeover to rollout refuse collection; JBr--make a change of some kind in collection system--have a consultant examine alternatives; could cost us a lot of money prior to saving funds in the future; better to wait and see what the consultant has to say about this; at least wait for a few months; wait to see what consultant says--might result in greater savings to citizens;

MC--premature to change system over; said same thing about a year ago at this time; $1,988,680 for sanitation services recommended in proposed budget; believe the system is somewhat broken; been described by some as a cadillac system; need to take a serious look at this in next year; BBP--often look at Town as being unique; think we should be unique in continuing with current system--one of advantages that all residents can share without any extra costs to anyone; many elderly could not roll carts; some elderly have nice paved driveways on which to roll carts; some people pay others to have carts rolled for them; once per week pickup may contribute to odor problems;

WCH--asked to review information about capital maintenance; listed detail in memorandum; glad to answer any questions; AW--some of these are maintenance and others are new capital items-- somewhat analagous to maintenance of streets--how much to keep things up; not what we had in mind for bond money--would like to see us dedicate some amount of money annually for maintenance and replacement items; always some extraordinary expenses; always have at least $50,000 per year; also possibly use CDBG funds to supplement; a number of our parks really need a lot of maintenance; spend at least $30,000 in maintenance for other parks; AW--combination of capital reserves and payments-in-lieu; Hargraves--possibly use CDBG funds; Hargraves is special case this year--in horrible shape--funds from capital reserve or CDBG; WCH--attorney says can not use CDBG funds for maintenance; can use for capital maintenance--new long term life; JA--think this is a good idea; AW--key item is maintenance; really simple, unexciting $5,000 or $10,000 item; AW--how much in budget for Hargraves? WCH--$30,000 to be reappropriated; need at least $16,000 more for Hargraves improvements; Broun--in addition, this year, talking about $46,000 more in addition to $30,000 recommended already; Broun--if spent $46,000 for Hargraves this year; what is potential for deterioration at other facilities; Battle--major renovations at other facilities in past; Broun--$46,000 contribution for maintenance this year at Hargraves; adding another $30,000 somewhat troublesome; AW--have not spent anything; realize can not bind future Councils; WCH--talking about capital maintenance tonight; get to point where things have to be replaced;

WCH--information requested about vehicles--additions or replacements; add a total of three vehicles proposed; should have first tub grinding within the month; vehicles have to be turned in to vehicle maintenance shop for evaluation--constantly pulling equipment out of stock; do not allow anyone to accumulate vehicles; JCap--what is scraper? WCH--used to move dirt at landfill. JCap--feel that a new one is justified? WCH--have no doubt; BBP--too many vehicles/equipment in P&R; WCH--some vehicles and equipment beyond repair; MC--appreciate report; need to replace police patrol cars fairly regularly; many of these vehicles seem to be fairly recent; realize some vehicles get heavy and hard use--WCH--system in use to keep vehicles based on service life; MC--not competent judge condition of vehicles personally; normally less expensive to repair than purchase a vehicle; hard to believe that is cheaper to buy new vehicles than to replace some; wonder if possible to purchase used vehicles; WCH--inspections--replacing vehicle that was wrecked; Purchasing used vehicles--no dependable market for consistently reliable vehicles on a dependable basis; cars driven for a long term for personal use; business--need to take into account salaries for repairing vehicles;

JBr--replace rear-loading sanitation trucks--different kind of collection system--might be just as well to make chnages in trucks--impact type of equipment needed; WCH--need some equipment--may not be able to make change fast enough; kind of trucks which we buy are versatile; easy to market--standard quality and type--principally thinking about providing dependable service; MC--dollar figure for van for internal services; $13,300 versus $9,186---portions in Public Works and Library budgets;

WCH--memos from Chiefs Pendergraph and Jones--training and travel costs; Broun--Council can look these over; WCH--updated 1992-93 and 1993-94 data for tax rates; County has had large education expenditures; AW--would like chart on an equivalency basis; this chart really does not say anything; WCH--could try to do so; AW--talking about an average number; WCH--trying to show it is not Town rate;

JHz--County contribution for library services--think this is year to do something about this; ask Mayor to talk to Moses Carey; don't begrudge Carrboro to have a library, but Town would subsidize County system and that proposed in Carrboro; Broun--raised recently and will raise again; JHz--believe Council is united on this; Broun--concur; will raise concern with Commissioner Carey; Broun--received requests from Law Enforcement Committee favorably; effectively rejected a rollout system; some real problems with sales tax exemption; urge Council to remember fairness to staff when looking for savings; remember to be fair for people doing work for Town; hard-working staff--need to maintain them; 8:11 p.m.

Bruce Heflin--