SUMMARY MINUTES OF A WORK SESSION
OF THE CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2003 AT 5:30 P.M.
Mayor Kevin Foy called the meeting together at 5:30 p.m.
Council members present were Pat Evans, Ed Harrison, Mark Kleinschmidt, Dorothy Verkerk, Jim Ward and Edith Wiggins.
Council Members Flicka Bateman and Bill Strom were absent, excused.
Staff members present were Town Manager Cal Horton, Assistant Town Managers Sonna Loewenthal and Florentine Miller, Transportation Planner David Bonk, Transportation Director Mary Lou Kuschatka, Transportation Administrative Analyst Bill Stockard, Senior Long Range Planning Coordinator Chris Berndt, and Town Clerk Joyce Smith.
Triangle Regional Transit Consolidation/Implementation Proposal
Mayor Foy explained that this initiative had come up earlier in the year during discussions among the mayors of Raleigh, Cary, Durham and Chapel Hill. The mayors, as well as representatives of the North Carolina Department of Transportation (NCDOT), had found this proposal attractive, he said. Mayor Foy pointed out the Consolidation Plan was available on the Town’s website.
a. Introduction by the Manager.
Town Manager Cal Horton introduced Transportation Planner David Bonk to make a brief presentation. Mr. Horton pointed out that Sanford Cross, who led this work on behalf of the Consortium, was available to answer questions. UNC Police Chief Derek Porch was also present, he said.
Mr. Bonk explained that the report outlined a framework for consolidating the Triangle Transit Authority (TTA), City of Raleigh, City of Durham, Town of Chapel Hill, Town of Cary and North Carolina State University transit systems. It lays out a schedule for full implementation by December 2007, he said. Mr. Bonk told Council members that the first stage would include consolidation of staff functions, which would lead to operation of regional transit service being under one organization. The report recommends that the TTA Board be that umbrella organization, he said.
Mr. Bonk mentioned two funding scenarios and an option for establishing a funding source. The report specifies a one-time, start-up cost of more than $3 million, he said, pointing out that this would be associated with a full conversion of existing regional transit services to a single entity. Mr. Bonk reported that Durham, Cary and Raleigh had directed their staffs to begin negotiations with the TTA on a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) that would accomplish the transfer. The TTA Board would act as the umbrella entity for the region, he said. Mr. Bonk noted that NC State University had received the report but had not yet taken action.
b. Discussion by the Mayor and Council.
Council Member Ward wondered what statement communities that had taken action were making to the process. Mr. Bonk replied that those communities had directed their staffs to explore details of what transferring their transit responsibilities to a regional entity would entail. Council Member Ward inquired about a timeframe and about possible implications for Chapel Hill's Town Operations Center (TOC) with regard to funding, scale, or design. Mr. Bonk responded that we did not yet know the other communities' timeframes.
Mr. Horton stated that implications for the TOC would depend to some extent on whether or not the Council decided to proceed with a new Transit Center. But that might not matter, he said, because there probably would continue to be separate maintenance facilities, storage and reporting facilities. The Town would continue to need a facility to serve Chapel Hill, Carrboro and the UNC vicinity, Mr. Horton explained, but he could not predict what effect that would have on funding.
Mayor Foy clarified that the Consolidation Plan did not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition from anyone's point of view. The choice that Council members make depends on what they think of this proposal, he said. Mayor Foy commented that Chapel Hill did not seem convinced that consolidating its system on this timeline would enhance its quality of service. But that does not preclude working with other communities to improve what it has, he said. Mayor Foy recommended that the Council get the information it needs to figure out whether, in what areas, and to what extent Chapel Hill might work with its neighbors on this.
Council Member Verkerk asked if Raleigh, Cary and Durham had the same commitment as Chapel Hill does to limiting parking to promote public transit. Mr. Bonk agreed that Chapel Hill was in the forefront of efforts to connect land use decisions with promoting alternative modes of transportation. Other communities' attempts to follow that course had been spotty and had differed from community to community and project to project, he said.
Mayor pro tem Evans wondered if consolidation could enhance what the Town already has. The Town/University fare free system has been fabulously successful, she said. She wondered if the Town would retain that responsive service with consolidation. Mayor pro tem Evans pointed out that Chapel Hill had the strongest system in the region. She suggested waiting to see whether consolidation brought the others up to a point where joining would not diminish what Chapel Hill already has.
Council Member Kleinschmidt expressed agreement with Mayor pro tem Evans's concerns. He noted that Chapel Hill had experimented with a late night route, had added a high school route, and had maneuvered resources to provide for a Halloween shuttle. He asked if a regional system could respond as effectively. Council Member Kleinschmidt wondered if there was a way to set standards, such as flexibility and fare free, that other communities would have to meet before the Town would consider consolidation. He wanted the other towns to be thinking about ways that they could be flexible to local needs, he said, and asked if there was a way to add that kind of instrument.
Mayor Foy suggested that Council members consider how consolidation might improve Chapel Hill's system. He asked for a staff opinion on areas, such as marketing, planning, purchasing and maintenance, that had been targeted for consolidation. Mayor Foy pondered the possibility of collaborating in a way that would make the Town part of the arrangement but not a full partner. But if the Town chooses not to participate at all, there would be a different way to monitor what goes on with the rest of the system, he said.
Council Member Kleinschmidt asked Mayor Foy if he meant there would be two scenarios, each requiring a different monitoring mechanism. Mayor Foy replied that being part of the collaboration would mean having staff interaction, which would put the Town in a different position than if it decided not to participate.
Council Member Verkerk asked about experimenting with "targeted interfaces" that would bring UNC employees in from places like Raleigh. Mr. Bonk replied that there was no initial regional funding source for that. Durham might negotiate a contract for TTA to run their system, he said. Mr. Bonk explained that Durham's and TTA's services might then be better coordinated. But the area of coverage would not change, and the Durham system would look the same as it does now, he said.
Council Member Verkerk, characterizing UNC as being "like a spider web" with employees everywhere, asked if the University was thinking regionally. Mr. Bonk said he did not think so, but Mayor Foy noted that having a regional funding source could change that. Mayor Foy pointed out that Attachment #1 of the materials in tonight’s packet included potential funding sources totaling about $70 million. That could change how much service everyone received, he said.
Council Member Wiggins expressed support for having the staff identify ways that the Town could participate in this regional effort. It might be done through joint marketing and advertising, she said, and she recommended not closing the door even if it did cost something to participate.
Council Member Harrison, the Council's liaison to the Transportation Board, expressed concern over Mr. Bonk's comment that Durham would carry on under consolidation just as it had before. There was an advantage to extending the Town's fixed-route service outside of Chapel Hill, he said, noting that many UNC employees live in Falconbridge and Downing Creek, which are not served by TTA. Council Member Harrison pointed out that no bus service connects the growing number of multi-family complexes on Old Durham-Chapel Hill Road with the UNC campus, even though many UNC students live there. Also, a large mixed-use area at the end of Ephesus Church Road will eventually need a route into campus, he said.
Council Member Harrison cautioned the Town against allowing other systems to make it impossible to extend Town service into their jurisdictions. He argued that Chapel Hill and UNC should not have to pay for getting passengers in from Durham. Council Member Harrison expressed hope that a system could be designed that would have route extensions. But, if early planning excludes the Town because the Town has not figured out how it will fit into it, then these useful extensions probably will not happen, he said.
Mr. Bonk replied that MOAs would be reached between the TTA and each individual entity. Therefore, it was not clear how an extension of Chapel Hill service into Durham, or the reverse, would come about, he said. Mr. Bonk stated that individual agreements would merely work out the details of how to provide the same, or a similar level, of service under a new paradigm in terms of who would provide it.
Council Member Ward commented that all were dubious at this point about where the improvements would be. He agreed that the Town should participate, but also agreed with Council Member Kleinschmidt's point about trying to form a consolidated system that looks like Chapel Hill's. Being there when the MOAs are formed would enable the Town to articulate its priorities and perhaps shape how the unified system might work regionally, Council Member Ward said. Mr. Bonk explained that the other entities would not agree to Chapel Hill participating in discussions because they would take place between TTA and each entity separately. There would be no format where all would sit down together, he said. Council Member Ward commented that even talking with the TTA would have value at this point.
Mr. Bonk commented on the role that the Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) would likely play in the process. He said that the MPO would have to look at the proposed consolidation at some point and determine whether it is in keeping with the overall goals of the region, such as air quality, land use, and congestion mitigation.
Council Member Wiggins suggested asking the staff to bring back information on areas where the Town could participate. She cautioned Council members not to miss the opportunity to keep the Town's options open.
Mayor pro tem Evans asked if there were ways, such as cooperative purchasing, in which the Town would benefit by participation. She pointed out that Chapel Hill's marketing efforts were unique to its service area. The TTA does not do the best job of marketing its services, she said. Mayor pro tem Evans pointed out that Chapel Hill had representatives on the TTA, so the Town would know what is going on unless they set up another TTA board.
Council Member Wiggins pointed out that just being a member of TTA's board does not make the Town part of the consolidated system.
Mayor Foy clarified that Mayor pro tem Evans had meant the Town would be kept informed. Council Member Wiggins argued for doing more than staying informed, since Council members had talked so much about regionalism and cooperation. Chapel Hill should be a role model with its excellent system, but should not present itself in an arrogant way, she said.
Council Member Harrison noted that the long-range transportation plan had been predicated on much more transit service and extensions of service. He wondered how consolidation would affect implementing that plan. Mr. Bonk replied that it was unclear how consolidation might support or detract from the plan. In the best case, it would facilitate implementation because it would allow the Town to have a rational system to provide service that is far more extensive than the current level, he said.
Council Member Kleinschmidt wondered if the Town would benefit from having a limited agreement with the TTA that did not include the cross-jurisdictional conversations that are needed when discussing regionalism.
Mayor Foy stated that this had been his first reaction too. But TTA would, in a sense, be Durham, he pointed out, because it would be the provider of the Durham service. Council Member Kleinschmidt proposed that this might argue for even smaller steps then, such as letting TTA and Durham work their MOA out first before talking with them. Perhaps the Council should just sit back now, and then later, look at what they've got, he stated.
Mayor Foy suggested thinking about what the next steps would be if one worked backwards from a goal of having a seamless, regional transit system in 2025. The Consolidation Plan seemed like an interim step, where one entity begins to find out how all of the systems run and ultimately has its own source of revenues, its own fare structures, and so forth, he said. Mayor Foy explained that the regions, such as Chapel Hill, Durham and Raleigh, could then purchase enhanced services to add on to one baseline service. Since a funding source does not yet exist, one cannot suggest consolidating under that paradigm, he said, so "you have to cobble the one where the money exists together and see where it goes." Mayor Foy explained that this was why he did not think it looked very good. But, there might not be other options for reaching the Town's goal 20 years from now, he said.
Council Member Verkerk asked if it was correct that Chapel Hill could not participate in only part of the program. Mr. Bonk replied that the first stage included a proposal to consolidate certain tasks, such as purchasing and advertising. The TTA might allow the Town to participate in one of those activities in the initial phases, but bigger steps would have to be taken at the later stages, he said.
Council Member Verkerk ascertained that the Town could negotiate an agreement with a clause that would allow removing itself.
Mayor pro tem Evans verified that the Town would remain a partner in TTA even if it did not participate in the program now. Chapel Hill could continue to participate on a regional basis, she said, but does not need help building a strong system because it already has one. Mayor pro tem Evans said there were no assurances that any aspect of consolidation would improve the Town's system.
Council Member Wiggins ascertained from Mr. Bonk that a community could stay at one level while other communities moved on. She then requested information from the staff as to whether there would be benefits to participating in that way. If there were, then she would like to do so, she said. If not, then the Town should participate at a minimal level. Council Member Wiggins said that the reasons for not participating were evident, and she recommended negotiating in a congenial or cooperative spirit. There would be a benefit to that, she said, even though it might not benefit the Town financially.
Mayor Foy asked Mr. Horton if consolidation would benefit the Town. Mr. Horton replied that some things could be potential benefits. Procurement, for example, stands out because one can negotiate a better deal on 150 buses than on 12, he said. Mr. Horton added that marketing services on a regional basis could benefit all of the systems. His areas of concern were governance and responsiveness to citizens, he said. Mr. Horton recommended that the Town retain governance so that it can be as responsive as it needs to be to meet the goals of the Town's Comprehensive Plan. He asked for the opportunity to review the list of other possibilities and to make specific recommendations. Mr. Horton noted that UNC and Carrboro would have specific concerns and might see specific opportunities. He'd like to have the benefit of their thinking as well, he said.
Mayor Foy suggested that the Council listen to what the staff and the Town's partners have to say and then respond to it. Or, the Council might want to say right now that it does not want to invest time in this, he said.
Council Member Ward replied that it was much too early for him to refuse. He pointed out that the goals and aspirations of the Consolidation Plan were exactly what Chapel Hill wanted. Getting there would be the hard part, he said, and he advised Council members not to curtail the conversation before knowing how the region might achieve that. Council Member Ward expressed interest in knowing how to incorporate areas beyond the Town's service area into the Consolidation Plan.
Council Member Kleinschmidt expressed eagerness to hear what Carrboro and UNC thought of the plan. Mayor Foy pointed out that both already had been included to a certain extent. Nobody knows where to get money for transit in this area, he said, adding that Orange County had been trying to identify a source for Phase II of the Regional Transit System. Mayor Foy noted that the report's suggested tax packages (retail fuels tax, vehicle registration tax, retail sales tax, or some combination) were ways that money could come into the region. He pointed out that this was just one pot of money that, if spent on this aspect of consolidation, would not be spent on Chapel Hill's transit corridor.
Mayor Foy stated that he did not want to see Phase Ia, Ib, Ic and Id of the regional transit system heading east of Raleigh. He wanted Orange County to be next in line, he said. Mayor Foy noted that Orange County had been helping to fund Phase I with tax dollars. It was now time for Phase II to be concentrated in Orange County, he said.
Council Member Wiggins inquired about the possibility that Orange County's federal funds to support transit could be in jeopardy. Mr. Bonk replied that the MPO would ultimately decide what portion of the money coming to the region would go to Durham, Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and northern Chatham County. Right now, distribution is based on a formula that mirrors the formula the federal government uses, he said. Council Member Wiggins asked the Manager to bring back a recommendation on how to ensure that this funding continues.
Council Member Ward inquired about Mr. Bonk's response to Mayor Foy's concerns about Phase II. Mr. Bonk explained that the report makes the point that a consolidated system is not dependent on a region funding source. The counties have also identified those sources for schools and other things, he said, and it has been identified for transportation, not only transit, purposes. So the proportion of money raised in each county for transit could be radically different depending on local preferences, Mr. Bonk said.
Mayor Foy pointed out that once a regional funding source is in place the Town would pay for any upgrades to basic service. So the regional funding source might pay for the buses, he said, but using it to pay for buses might erode the Town's ability to pay for the train or other public transit corridors.
Council Member Ward said this sounded like an either/or decision, but Mayor Foy replied that he was not sure this was true. But, the Town should be vigilant about the money and where it goes because it cannot be spent more than once, Mayor Foy said.
Mayor pro tem Evans commented that the process might be changed so that Garner or someone else would be linked to the rail line next, rather than Chapel Hill. She inquired about the process to change that agreement. Mr. Bonk replied that the Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) at their last meeting requested that the TTA begin the NEPA process to do Phase II along Highway 15-501, since it already has a completed major investment study. A meeting had been scheduled to begin discussions at a staff level on how to proceed and how to pay for it, he said.
Mr. Horton explained that four different elements would have to be worked on:
1) Making it work at the MPO level requires negotiation among all partners there.
2) The State could slow things down, or speed things up, or make things happen in some regions and not others.
3) Things need to be done by established rules at the Federal level.
4) The Legislature, through the Transportation Oversight Committee and other committees there, has influence too.
Mr. Horton pointed out that it would take regular vigilance in all four of those spheres to keep moving the way the Town wants to. And, when others have ambitions for the same dollars, it gets tough, he said.
Mayor pro tem Evans commented that consolidation would create additional concerns.
Council Member Harrison pointed out that one goal had been to get more people on transit. Any of these processes could achieve that, he said, adding that consolidation was a much less direct means because the service extensions are not included.
Mr. Horton invited Sanford Cross to comment on what had been discussed. Mr. Cross stated that he had heard many of the same comments during presentations to the TTA, City of Durham, Town of Cary and the City of Raleigh. But, elected bodies in those areas had decided to move ahead because they feel there could be some benefit in looking at it regionally, he said.
Mr. Cross noted that much work needed to be done prior to the first consolidation in October 2004. The other governing bodies had designated a transit consolidation coordinator for their areas, he said. Mr. Cross explained that the others do not want to be exclusive, but their staffs feel pressured to move ahead and think that the best way to do that is to include only those whose governing bodies have decided to move ahead with consolidation.
UNC Police Chief Derek Porch, representing the University, told Council members that his staff had been working on a draft to bring to the Public Transit Committee next week. There were opportunities and potentials for some partnerships, he said, such as advertising and procurement. But, he pointed out, the Council's comments had been similar to UNC's, particularly with regard to levels of service and responsiveness. The Manager's point regarding governance would also be in the letter from UNC, said Chief Porch. He noted that Chapel Hill would have only one voice in the system even though it is comprised of more than one entity.
The meeting adjourned at 6:48 p.m.