MINUTES OF A PUBLIC HEARING OF THE CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL

MONDAY, MAY 20, 1996 AT 7:00 P.M.

Mayor Waldorf called the meeting to order. Council Members in attendance were Julie Andresen, Joyce Brown, Joe Capowski, Mark Chilton, Pat Evans, Richard Franck, and Lee Pavao. Council Member Barbara Powell was absent excused. Staff members in attendance were Town Manager Cal Horton, Assistant Town Managers Sonna Loewenthal and Florentine Miller, Town Attorney Ralph Karpinos, Fire Chief Dan Jones, Planning Director Roger Waldon, and Development Coordinator J. B. Culpepper.

Item 1 Sprinkler Systems in Fraternity and Sorority Houses

Town Manager Cal Horton stated the resolution before the Council would request introduction of a local act by the Town's Legislative Delegation in the current session of the North Carolina General Assembly that would, if enacted, authorize the Town to adopt an ordinance requiring the installation of sprinkler systems in fraternity and sorority houses within the Town limits and the Town's extraterritorial planning jurisdiction. Mr. Horton also stated in regards to existing structures used as fraternity or sorority houses the draft bill would authorize the Town to require the installation of sprinkler systems within a reasonable period of time after the effective date of any ordinance to be determined by the Council when the ordinance is adopted.

Mr. Horton said that based on staff's review of current law, we believe there may be an alternative procedure which would enable the Town to implement an ordinance requiring sprinkler systems. He said under the provisions of North Carolina General Statutes, local governments may adopt local building or fire prevention code revisions within their jurisdictions. Mr. Horton stated that such provisions would become effective only after they had been approved by the North Carolina Building Code Council. He said under the language of current statutes, we believe a strong argument can be made that the Building Code Council would be compelled to approve the proposed sprinkler ordinance. Mr. Horton stated that in addition to asking the Council to act on the proposed resolution tonight, we also recommend that the Council consider enacting at its next regular meeting on May 29th an ordinance which would require the installation of sprinkler systems in all fraternity and sorority houses within the Town limits within five years of the effective date of the ordinance. He stated if enacted by the Council, the ordinance would become effective upon approval by the North Carolina Building Code Council or by the enactment by the North Carolina General Assembly of enabling legislation. Mr. Horton stated the recommendation is for the Council to adopt the resolution before them tonight, and also to consider an ordinance on May 29th.

Council Member Andresen stated the Council is looking at a process that would require fraternities and sororities to install sprinkler systems within a fixed five-year period. She asked Mr. Horton if as a part of this a sliding scale could be developed based on the number of residents of a fraternity or sorority house or the number of square feet in a fraternity or sorority. Council Member Andresen stated other towns had used such a scale so that the fraternities and sororities with the largest number of lives at risk were the first priority. She asked Mr. Horton if his proposal was a fixed five-year period. Mr. Horton stated yes, but if the Council wished, alternatives could be developed for their consideration.

Mayor Waldorf stated the resolution asked for only the authority to enact an ordinance. Mr. Horton stated the resolution asks the Town's legislative delegation to introduce a bill which, if enacted, would give the Council the authority to adopt an ordinance.

Council Member Evans said she had read an article which quoted an estimate of $10,000 to install sprinklers in some sororities. She stated the correct estimate is $50,000 to $100,000. Council Member Evans also said some sororities are smoke free or located in the Historic District, which would cause their risk of fire to be lower. She stated an ordinance such as that suggested should be considered when all fraternity and sorority representatives are in town and can respond.

Council Member Capowski suggested that support may be forthcoming from the National Chapters of some fraternities and sororities and the Council should pursue this.

Council Member Franck stated he would support the resolution, but had some reservations. He said he is uncomfortable with the enormous cost involved, even when spread over a five year period. Council Member Franck stated he wonders why the Council is targeting only fraternities and sororities, and that maybe they should be considering all dwellings.

Council Member Andresen stated she agrees the Council should look at the whole picture so they would understand exactly what an ordinance such as this would mean. She stated this subject was originally brought to the Council's attention as a result of several fires in retail businesses. Council Member Andresen said she believes new structures should also be targeted.

COUNCIL MEMBER CHILTON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER PAVAO, TO ADOPT RESOLUTION 1. THE MOTION WAS ADOPTED UNANIMOUSLY (8-0).

A RESOLUTION REQUESTING THE INTRODUCTION OF A LOCAL ACT AUTHORIZING THE TOWN TO REQUIRE THE INSTALLATION OF SPRINKLER SYSTEMS IN FRATERNITY AND SORORITY HOUSES (96-5-20/R-1)

WHEREAS, the Council has determined that there is a need for the installation of sprinkler systems in fraternity and sorority houses within its jurisdiction;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Council of the Town of Chapel Hill that the Council requests that the Town's legislative delegation introduce on behalf of the Town a local bill, a draft of which is attached, requiring the installation of sprinkler systems in fraternity and sorority houses within the Town and its extraterritorial planning jurisdiction.

This the 20th day of May, 1996.

Mayor Waldorf asked Town Attorney Karpinos to address some questions raised by the press concerning the other proposal the staff has encouraged the Council to consider, which is to attempt to get a change through the North Carolina Building Code Council. Mayor Waldorf stated there had been some question as to whether the Council could do this based on a 1979 court case and asked Mr. Karpinos to comment.

Town Attorney Ralph Karpinos said that as stated by the Manager, we believe this is an option that may be available based on our reading of the State statutes, specifically the statute referenced in the Council's agenda materials. He stated the specific language which we believe supports this position was added to General Statute 143.138 in 1989 allowing local governments to enact revisions to fire codes which would then become effective upon approval by the North Carolina Building Code Council. Mr. Karpinos stated that specifically there is a reference in that 1989 amendment which says that if it has certain impact with respect to the fire code and is more stringent than State standards, then it appears from that the language of the statute that approval by the Building Code Council would be required. He stated that we believe the 1979 Court of Appeals decision does not necessarily preclude the Building Code Council from approving a Town ordinance. Mr. Karpinos stated we are not asking for the Building Code Council to adopt a regulation, but are asking them for approval of the Town's ordinance as they are authorized by State statute to do. He stated that the 1979 Court of Appeals decision would not, as stated in a local newspaper, prevent the Building Code Council from acting. Mr. Karpinos stated that we believe the 1989 statutory amendment ten years after this court decision specifically authorizes the action we propose the Building Code Council take. He said if the Council proceeds with the adoption of the ordinance at some future meeting, specifically at the next regular meeting on May 29th or at some other meeting, then the ordinance would be presented to the Building Code Council. Mr. Karpinos reiterated we believe that the amendment adopted in 1989 by the General Assembly would allow the Council to act.

Item 2 Applications Regarding Southern Village Development

Mayor Waldorf stated that because of the number of applications to be presented tonight and the time the Council must dedicate to consideration of these applications, it was possible tonight's hearing may be recessed and continued to another evening. Mayor Waldorf said the suggested procedure was to have presentations by the applicant and the staff on the first four applications concerning modifications to the previously approved Master Plan and Special Use Permits, and she encouraged the applicant, staff, and board representatives to be thorough but concise in their comments and asked the same of citizens wishing to comment. Mayor Waldorf suggested that the Council expand the normal three-minute time limit for citizens to speak to six minutes, but asked citizens who wished to comment on the first four proposals to limit their remarks within the six-minute time frame or less. She stated if this procedure is acceptable to the Council, then after completion of discussion on the first four items, the public hearing would be recessed and a date set for a continuance of this process. Mayor Waldorf said this is a complex issue which requires the Council devote a large amount of time for consideration.

Town Manager Horton stated that Planning Director Roger Waldon would give the Council some background information as well as an overview of the proposals to be considered.

Planning Director Roger Waldon stated there were eight separate applications to be discussed. He said the total Southern Village site consists of about 350 acres, and a Master Plan was approved by the Council in 1993 along with a series of Special Use Permits. Mr. Waldon stated he would confine his remarks to the first four proposals, which is to modify the Master Land Use Plan and three of the Special Use Permits. He stated that with approval of a Master Land Use Plan, the stage is set for the Council's entertaining Special Use Permits. Mr. Waldon stated that with the approval of a Master Land Use Plan, it establishes a presumption that certain findings for Special Use Permits can be met, which can be debated and rebutted, and the Council will hear evidence tonight both for an against these applications.

Mr. Waldon said the first report concerns the Master Land Use Plan and highlighted the key issues, which are the greenway north of Culbreth Road, the internal greenway site, the procedure for Townhome approvals, small ponds versus a central lake, a density transfer option, an escrow account, the unit count threshold, land use intensity ratios, changing the location for crossing Fan Branch, parking in the Village Core, and an additional signal and turn lane. He stated he would confine his remarks to what they consider to be the high points, which are the greenway north of Culbreth Road, small ponds versus a central lake, parking in the Village Core, and an additional signal and turn lane. Mr. Waldon stated that what is being considered tonight is basically a continuation of what is already taking place at Southern Village. He stated the development is underway on the eastern half of the property and through this experience the applicant has identified changes and adjustments he would like to see made to allow the eastern half of the development to go forward before hearing about the proposals for the west side. Mr. Waldon said what is being proposed is adjustments with no change to the fundamental concept of Southern Village as approved with the Master Plan.

Mr. Waldon stated the first report deals with modifications to the Master Land Use Plan involving the entire 300+ acres. He said the first item concerned the proposed greenway, and reminded the Council a key concept of the original Master Plan and Southern Village idea was to provide alternate modes of transportation other than by automobile, and there were requirements placed on the applicant for improvements to get pedestrians and bicyclists from the development into town. Mr. Waldon said that the original plan has proven to be unworkable, so the applicant has proposed an alternative which would include a sidewalk network which would come up the west side of 15-501, then continuing up the east side to Purefoy Road, with bike lanes striped on both sides of 15-501 from Purefoy Road to the Culbreth Road intersection. He stated they agree with the applicant that this is the best proposal to provide a path for pedestrians and bicyclists to get into town. Mr. Waldon stated this would mean the loss of a pedestrian bridge over Morgan Creek which would connect with future Greenways, so the proposal before the Council recommends approving the developer's plan but includes a requirement that a pedestrian and bicycle path be built over Morgan Creek to connect with future greenway systems.

Mr. Waldon said the original Master Plan called for one central lake which would capture stormwater runoff and serve for both stormwater management and protection of water quality, but the applicant is proposing a change which would eliminate one central lake and provide for several holding ponds. He stated that they believe this presents an equivalent means of meeting the watershed protection requirements. Mr. Waldon said the applicant discovered in construction of the Village Core that not enough parking is shown on the plans and is proposing a change which would allow an additional surface parking lot. Mr. Waldon said the last key point is proposed by the staff, not the applicant. He said that when looking at the applicant's Traffic Impact Statement, they believed there was need for additional traffic improvements to be required, and recommend a payment-in-lieu for an additional turn signal on 15-501 and the installation of a left turn lane on Culbreth Road.

Mr. Waldon stated there was only one real issue in the second report, which deals with the link between the Greenways he commented on earlier between Culbreth Road and the northeast tract. He said the applicant is well into construction of the northeast tract, with buildout not too far off, and the Master Plan calls for bike lane and pedestrian improvements to be a required component of the northeast tract. Mr. Waldon stated the applicant has requested that this link be severed, that those bikeway and greenway improvements be linked to later phases of the development.

Mr. Waldon said that in the third report, regarding the Village Core, the applicant requests and they recommend building in some flexibility in the number of parking spaces required and that on-street parking be acknowledged as meeting parking requirements. He also stated that the Master Plan calls for the Council to approve a Special Use Permit, with individual buildings being approved by the Planning Board in their Site Plan process. Mr. Waldon said in this case, the applicant is bringing before the Council two detailed plans for buildings in the Village Core included as a part of this application, so that in addition to asking the Council to approve changes in the Village Core Special Use Permit, that the Council also approve those two buildings as well.

Mr. Waldon stated the fourth report deals with modifications to the apartment district, which are nearly complete. He said that when the apartment district was discussed, parking requirements were a concern and whether on-street parking spaces could be counted. Mr. Waldon said the current ordinance did not allow for that, so the applicant is proposing that the on-street parking on nearby streets be counted to satisfy the parking requirements. Mr. Waldon said that now that the Special Use Permit is coming back before the Council, the Council had some flexibility in granting relief from this requirement, and recommends that the Council do so. He said this would allow the applicant to dedicate those streets as public streets through the network of apartment buildings.

Mr. Waldon stated there are resolutions attached to each of these four reports and recommended approval of each with the conditions as stated. He said that in some cases they did not agree with all modifications suggested by the applicant in exactly the form as requested, but these modifications represent reasonable requests and would allow the continued development of Southern Village.

Mr. D. R. Bryan, speaking as the applicant and a general partner of Southern Village, stated that the Council appointed a committee to develop a Small Area Plan for the southern area which was adopted by the Council 1992. He said part of this plan was that approximately 300 acres of the roughly 2500 acres considered would be developed as a village, defined in the Small Area Plan as the type of development that took place in the first half of this century. Mr. Bryan said they saw one goal as creating a sense of community by getting people out of cars and onto the sidewalks so they could become better acquainted. He said the second goal was to lessen dependence on the automobile, and to do that they focused on designation or mixture of uses, the density of the neighborhood, and the design. Mr. Bryan said to accomplish these goals office, retail, and residential uses were integrated into one area rather than being separate as most other developments are. He said that with this type of development, it requires a higher type of density, so that if a retail establishment exists within walking distance of houses, there should be more houses in that area to support it so that cars are not required. Mr. Bryan said they took those ideas into account in the design process. He said they looked at two elements of the design, one being could a child of ten get to the store, and the second is would it be a pleasant walk.

Mr. Bryan presented a series of slides which highlighted the sidewalks within the neighborhood, as well as the buildings themselves. He said there is a sense of community in Southern Village, and pedestrians frequently walk through the neighborhoods. Mr. Bryan stated that Christ United Methodist Church will be building within the development, and Chapel Hill Day Care is already in operation. He said the first families had just moved into the apartments during the past week. Mr. Bryan said the parks are beautiful and frequently used. He also stated they were proud of the foot bridges and Greenways within Southern Village.

Mr. Bryan stated that lessons had been learned, one of which is that skinny streets are better than wide ones. He also stated that much of what had been planned was not allowed by the Town's Development Ordinance. Mr. Bryan also said the idea of a center lake did not work, hence the proposal of several ponds.

Council Member Brown asked Mr. Bryan to clarify he comments concerning roads in the Resource Conservation District.

Mr. Bryan stated one road runs parallel to the creek through the center of the property. He said when looked at in two dimensions, it looks find, but in three dimensions, the creek is lower than the road, which creates a slope.

Mary Reeb, speaking for the Planning Board, stated when the Southern Small Area Plan was developed, they were interested in doing something different in that area, with less dwelling units and more protection of the natural areas. Ms. Reeb said some criticism had been expressed because of the density proposed for this area. She stated that this area of town is growing rapidly, and with Southern Village the density is actually controlled. Ms. Reeb said the main problem now is the crossing of Morgan Creek so that pedestrians and bicyclists could get to the downtown. She stated the Planning Board approved a modification which would delete the crossing of the creek. Ms. Reeb also stated the Planning Board felt it was an unwise move to require a developer to make improvements to adjacent property, so the Planning Board deleted that requirement from their recommendation.

Andrea Rohrbacher, speaking for the Greenways Commission, stated the Greenways Commission had met jointly with the Parks and Recreation Commission to review the applications for Southern Village. She stated they agreed that extending the Fan Branch greenway trail north of Culbreth Road and to make additional improvements to Purefoy Road was not feasible because of safety concerns. Ms. Rohrbacher said that both boards wanted to explore the possibility of the developer providing a payment-in-lieu to the Town equal to the cost of providing the currently required Greenways improvements north of Culbreth Road and that the funds be used to extend the Fan Branch greenway.

Maureen St. John-Breen, representing the Culbreth Homeowners Association, read a letter from the Association's president, asking that the Council slow down and carefully consider all proposals for Southern Village. She read that little land is set aside for park land, and the development is drifting away from the original village concept. Ms. St. John-Breen read that the quality of the water in Fan Branch has dropped, and asked that the Council not rush into approval of the proposals. Ms St. John-Breen said she is concerned that some Greenways are too close to houses with no buffer zone. She also asked that at least one side of the creek be preserved as greenway space.

Diane Bloom stated that the original concept of the Southern Village is being compromised. She said there are environmentally sensitive areas which should be protected. Ms. Bloom said she is concerned about the amount of density in some of the areas, and that not enough green space or common areas are proposed. She said that the natural wetlands are in danger of being destroyed, that the recreational building would not accommodate the eventual population of Southern Village, and that the proposal to empty the pool water within the property was not a good idea. Ms. Bloom said she hoped that the Council would take her comments into consideration.

Madeline Jefferson, speaking for the Chapel Hill Alliance of Neighborhoods, said they had concerns about the impact of Southern Village on surrounding neighborhoods and traffic on 15-501. She also stated they are concerned about the effect on the Resource Conservation District.

Paul Tawney, representing the Southern Village Homeowners Association, said their development is progressing and they had voted unanimously to support the developer's proposed changes. He stated he enjoys the quality of life in this development and believes it will continue.

Dean Kreyling, speaking on behalf of several residents of the Smith Level Road area, read a statement from Mrs. Eva Snipes, stating her belief that the Southern Village developer not be allowed to place houses only thirty feet from her property line. Mr. Kreyling read that Mrs. Snipes believed that at least a 100-foot buffer should be left between the development and her property line. Mr. Kreyling also read a statement from Ms. Judy Coleman and himself, stating their disagreement with several of the proposals, namely the placement of 600 homes on the west tract. He read that placing these homes on an area that is located within the Watershed Protection District is in disregard of the citizens of the community, and that having a chlorinated pool in the recreation area means that the water would have be drained on the property and would eventually show up in the stormwater detention ponds, which would bring about long term damage to our children and the water table. Mr. Kreyling read that this development would affect the long-term well being of the residents of his community. He also read that regarding the placement of 26 buildings on 8.43 acres of land, the applicant should not be granted administrative exemptions when the site lies in the Resource Conservation District and is a higher density than that already allowed by the R-5 designation. Mr. Kreyling distributed a copy of an agreement between the Town and the Town of Carrboro giving the Town control, until the year 2015, of what happens to this rural entranceway, and asked that the Council not allow one or two roads to come out of the western tract of Southern Village. He said this would add up to a thousand cars a day to Smith Level Road traffic, which would have a grave affect on their community by adding to litter and erosion of their community.

Livy Luddington stated she endorses the concept of Southern Village, but asked at what cost do we want to develop something that will have such an impact on surrounding land as well as nearby neighborhoods. She said she is concerned about the erosion that has already taken place, and believes the Resource Conservation District is not effective in this case. Ms. Luddington said the surrounding neighborhoods should not be impacted to such a large extent, and that more buffers and traffic control should be added. She asked the Council to scrutinize this project carefully.

Dave Cook stated that the density of the project is too great when compared to other neighborhoods in Chapel Hill and Carrboro. He said the cut and fill that will be required has increased, and asked the Council to look closely at the density figures. Mr. Cook said the developer appears to want to work closely with the Town to resolve the issues raised, and he asked the Council attempt to preserve the integrity of the project. Mr. Cook also read a letter from Jean Francis, who owns a 47-acre tract to the west of Southern Village. He read that if the heirs ever decide to develop this property, she understands that on parts of it one house could be built for every two acres, and on other parts one house per five acres. Ms. Francis' letter stated she believed it was unfair, based on the density of Southern Village, that the developer be allowed to build within 10 to 20 feet of her property line and the property lines of her neighbors, and stated that no one would want to live that close to that dense a development. Her letter proposed that a 100-foot buffer be imposed on Southern Village.

Joanna Haymore referred to a question asked previously by Council Member Brown which was does the current interpretation of the Resource Conservation District concerning permitted uses protect the state of this County's natural resources. She said that slides previously viewed by the Council showed the sides of the creek bank stripped and graded to within two to three feet of the creek, and this is currently a permitted use. She stated she had concerns about the permitted uses and ask that the Council look at this project carefully. She said what is done here with this developer will impact all future developers in Chapel Hill. She said every square foot of the natural resources in the Resource Conservation District needs to be protected.

Lloyd Kramer, a resident of Dogwood Acres, stated he is concerned about the impact of Southern Village on his neighborhood, specifically the increase in traffic which is altering the quality of life in his neighborhood. Mr. Kramer said he was disturbed that during the recent Planning Board meeting the residents of Dogwood Acres were referred to a self-interested. He stated that the Greenways should be protected and asked that the Council slow down and consider all aspects of this proposal.

Dave Cook asked that the report he had previously turned in be included as part of the record for tonight's meeting.

Mayor Waldorf asked the applicant to comment on the recommendations put forth by the staff and advisory boards.

Mr. Bryan distributed a list of proposed changes to the stipulations being requested regarding the Master Land Use Plan in Resolution A. Mr. Bryan said that three years ago when the Master Land Use Plan was before the Council, they were not required to widen Culbreth Road nor was a stoplight required. He said they agreed to build a greenway system on site, agreed to build a pedestrian/bike connection to Purefoy Road which required them to buy an additional 12 acres, agreed to build an interconnected street network, and an alley system with sidewalks on both sides of the internal streets. Mr. Bryan said they are asking they not be required to pay for the stoplight at the northern entrance since they do not feel it is needed, and that the greenway path as described in Resolution A, 10(g) be required as he proposed in his written comments distributed tonight, which among other things stated that they not be required to cross the creek. Mr. Bryan asked that the sidewalk be tied to the northeast tract of the greenway, not the west.

Mr. Bryan stated that Culbreth Road does not touch the Southern Village property, and is asking that they not be required to widen that road.

Council Member Franck stated the applicant's statement mentions marketing difficulties associated with some buildings, and asked Mr. Bryan to elaborate on that.

Mr. Bryan stated that in one particular area there was not enough parking available, as the Town's ordinance would require 850 parking spaces. He stated that only 670 spaces could be included. Mr. Bryan said if on-street parking were included, only 70 more spaces would be added, which still would not meet the Town's requirements. He said that when talking with retail grocery businesses, they would not consider opening a store in the Southern Village without parking in front of their store.

Council Member Franck said that by eliminating the buildings in that area, they have effectively created a streetscape, but only on one side of the street. He asked how that empty block could potentially be used.

Mr. Bryan said he envisions a parking center similar to that located across from 411 West Franklin with a brick wall and trees.

Council Member Franck asked where the additional houses in the Village Core were being deleted from in the rest of the development to keep the number of units the same. Mr. Bryan stated some townhouses had been deleted. Council Member Franck asked Mr. Karpinos how he felt about the requirement for improvements to Culbreth Road. Mr. Karpinos stated he would look at this requirement.

Council Member Capowski asked Mr. Bryan why was the original plan rejected by the N. C. Department of Transportation. Mr. Bryan stated they would not allow a pedestrian crossing in the area originally proposed in the Master Land Use Plan. Council Member Capowski stated that the proposal before the Council tonight does not solve the problem of how pedestrians and bicyclists could cross 15-501 safely. Council Member Capowski asked why bicyclists were not allowed to cross under the bridge rather than travelling to Culbreth Road and having to merge with traffic in order to turn into the development. Mr. Waldon said the Department of Transportation would not approve a crossing which involved an entrance ramp such as that suggested. He said that the best solution appears to be keeping the bicyclist on the road, not under the bridge. Mr. Waldon said a striped bicycle lane would end well short of the entrance ramp, which is not ideal, but appears to be the best solution. Council Member Capowski asked if we as a Town are loosing money with the applicants proposal. Mr. Waldon stated he did not know, and stated they recommend requiring the improvements, and not accepting payments-in-lieu. Mr. Waldon said they did not care if the applicant or the Department of Transportation made the improvements, but they needed to be done, with no cost to the Town.

Council Member Andresen stated that when the Master Plan was approved, there was consideration of asking the developer to make significant traffic and roadway improvements to 15-501, which was put aside with the idea that there would instead be an alternative transportation link. She said maybe that was unrealistic, but if no requirement for improvements is made at all, then we are moving further away from the original plan.

Council Member Evans asked if the State would be widening the bridge on 15-501, and would it include a bike lane. Mr. Horton said they had no assurance this would be done, but if it was a bike lane would be included. Council Member Evans said that regarding the pedestrian crossing at 15-501 near the exit ramp, that most traffic would be turning left, which means that pedestrians would be safer continuing on and making a right turn, where less traffic would be present.

Council Member Andresen asked how much retail space as opposed to office space could be expected. Mr. Waldon said that in the residential areas there is only a deli and a corner grocery store, with some vacant office space. He said there is no set phasing of how much retail versus office space will be made available.

Council Member Andresen said she was struck by the number of steep slopes located on the property. She asked what if any effect the Town's steep slope ordinance has had on this project. Mr. Waldon said the steep slope ordinance has been working well. He said that with Southern Village, those houses on steep slopes had been carefully considered so as to minimize land disturbance.

Council Member Andresen said that several times the staff had opted to make modifications and to offer some flexibility to the developer. She said she would like to see the Town offer this same flexibility to environmentalists. Council Member Andresen said the modifications proposed did call for off-site improvements, but the Town had in the past asked for off-site improvements so this is not an new concept. She said the developer should be willing to accept the impact their developments have on intersections and roads. Council Member Andresen said she would like to concentrate more time on the parking issue within the development, and she is sorry that the large pond had been lost. She said that density also means amenities, and one of those amenities should have been the lake. Council Member Andresen said small ponds which are fenced are not as aesthetic, and she did not like having to give up the large pond which would have been more attractive. She said she is also concerned that a lot of small decisions lead to big impacts, and if we keep adding more flexibility and changing the Master Plan, the concept as originally envisioned is lost, such as with the large pond. Council Member Andresen said the impact of traffic is a big concern, as well as the loss of amenities. She said the idea is that if the Council is going to approve a project with this much density, then more green space should be provided.

Council Member Pavão asked what would be added to the space originally reserved for the large pond. Mr. Bryan answered that the lake in the original Master Plan was roughly 10 acres. He said the proposal now is that several ponds be scattered throughout the 10 acres. He said that State rules and Town ordinance requires that the first inch of rain be retained on site for 24 hours. Mr. Bryan said this would have been almost impossible in a live stream, which this would have been. He said that the State rules have since been modified, but not the Town's, so the large pond was not feasible. Council Member Pavão asked did this mean the area would remain in its natural state. Mr. Bryan stated yes.

Council Member Brown asked if the small ponds would be located in this area. Mr. Bryan said yes. Council Member Brown said then the area would not remain natural. Mr. Bryan said for the most part it would, that the large pond would have required more clearing than the smaller ponds. He said with the small ponds, only about two thirds of the original clearing would have to been done.

Council Member Capowski asked if these small ponds would be fenced in and would they hold the stormwater necessary. Mr. Bryan stated yes, they would hold stormwater year round, but did not know if fences would be required around these detention ponds.

Council Member Capowski asked if fencing was required around detention ponds according to Town ordinance. Mr. Waldon stated that the Development Ordinance does not require fencing of detention ponds.

Council Member Capowski asked how deep was the original large pond. Mr. Bryan said he did not know, but the lake was supposed to have been around 10 acres.

Mayor Waldorf asked if the ponds would be useful amenities, if by looks if nothing else. Mr. Bryan asked Mr. Russell Briggs to answer.

Mr. Briggs said the stormwater management regulations require that three feet of water be in these ponds at all times and that the first inch of rainwater would be retained for 24 hours then slowly released.

Mayor Waldorf asked how would three feet of water been retained during dry weather? Mr. Briggs stated that many ponds, such as on farms, have a wet base and stay full year round, as these would.

Council Member Chilton asked if water would then drain from pond to pond in a stair-step fashion. Mr. Briggs said yes, in several of the ponds, but only one would be fed by stormwater drainage pipes. Council Member Chilton asked if these pipes would cross Fan Branch. Mr. Briggs said yes, but in only one place. Council Member Chilton asked about an overflow structure. Mr. Briggs stated that overflow when it occurs would flow into Fan Branch.

Council Member Brown asked about the stormwater management plan as it relates to watershed requirements. Mr. Briggs said he used the two terms to include both stormwater management and the watershed. He said that a large pond would have to be a multi-use facility, He said the first problem is to retain that first inch of rainwater for 24 hours then slowly release it, and the second problem is that the State would require that minimum runoff even during dry weather, which could effectively drain the lake itself. Mr. Briggs said the watershed protection ordinance is fairly new, so there is no tract history to rely on. He said he expects the same type of maintenance to be necessary to the small ponds as would be required for a large pond.

Mayor Waldorf asked Mr. Briggs about the minimum release requirements and how it might drain the lake. Mr. Briggs said that a minimum release rate is required year round even during dry months. He said if there is minimum inflow over a period of time, this release requirement could drain the lake.

Council Member Andresen asked the staff to study this issue and respond to Mr. Briggs comments, and see if there was any way the large pond could be retained. Council Member Brown also asked that a comparison of the two be made.

Council Member Capowski asked if he was able to build the lake without the State requirements, would he do it. Mr. Briggs said yes, but they must adhere to the State requirements. Mr. Briggs also stated it is his belief that the smaller ponds would better retain water quality since runoff would be isolated and treated in smaller quantities.

Council Member Evans stated that she would like to speak in favor of the smaller ponds, since more areas would then have access to the smaller ponds. She also said that the smaller ponds would require less clearing so more trees would be saved.

Council Member Brown asked the staff to address the possibility of mosquitos becoming more of a problem with several smaller ponds as opposed to the one large pond.

Council Member Chilton stated he had received a letter from Scott Radway, and asked that it be included in the record of tonight's meeting. Mr. Radway's letter concerned the wetlands and wetland mitigation. He asked how can the Town, without legislative action or authority - and quite possibly with legislative authority specifically prohibited because of Army Corps and State responsibilities for wetlands - begin including such wetland mitigation conditions within development approval conditions. Mr. Radway's letter stated he was not opposed to more stringent controls on wetland disturbance, but did not believe the Council could or should insert blanket wetlands mitigation statements without examining the Town's legal authority and if the Town was able to legally regulate wetlands in some fashion by deciding where, when, and what the Town wants mitigation to achieve. Council Member Chilton asked that when the staff returns with comments on tonight's discussion, they address Mr. Radway's concerns.

Council Member Brown wanted to enter into the record a memo from Roger Waldon to Cal Horton dated March 24, 1993, in which Mr. Waldon concludes that the Southern Village proposal did not incorporate the Laurel Hill Parkway. Council Member Brown also asked that the transportation issues be looked at more closely. She said the material indicates that in some places no significant impacts should occur. Council Member Brown said she believes there will be tremendous impact in some areas and asked the staff to give the Council their conclusions on these impacts. She also stated she believes it is extremely important that we preserve our streams and the areas around those streams. She said she believes the Council should be extra careful that areas in the Resource Conservation District are preserved. Council Member Brown also asked that attention be paid to the protection of trees and any environmentally sensitive areas. She said the Council should make sure that as little destruction as possible takes place. Council Member Brown said she would like to have better information provided. She stated she would like to see a more up-to-date Master Plan which shows the modifications being requested and exactly where the construction to date has taken place.

Council Member Evans said regarding the parking plaza, she and Council Member Pavão had attended some meetings in Charlotte at which slides were shown of parking plazas being used as farmers markets, street fairs and other uses, and encouraged the developer the try to use his areas in somewhat the same way. Council Member Evans also raised the issue of retail development, and commented she is not sure the retail needs of the southern area of town is being met. She stated she is not sure 80,000 square feet of retail space is adequate for this area. Council Member Evans said regarding improvements to Culbreth School Road, she is not in favor of it because it may encourage vehicles to enter Southern Village in that area. She said putting in a turn lane on Culbreth School Road would encourage traffic to turn there rather than continuing on to 15-501 and then turning. Council Member Evans said it was important that local cars be able to use the area, but not cut-through traffic looking for a short cut.

Mayor Waldorf said it is important that the retail space be viable. Mr. Bryan first stated they do have an updated master plan available and would provide it to the Council. He said that regarding the retail, they will submit a site plan to the Planning Board which would include a hardware store, a grocery store, a cinema, and others. Mr. Bryan said not one retail area would be more than 10,000 square feet, except for a grocery store. He said he believes they will fill all of the available space, except for the grocery store. Mr. Bryan said they had not been able to attract a grocery store, as they require a minimum of 30,000 square feet. He stated that they envision a small grocery store of about 15,000 square feet, which would not encourage a great deal of traffic coming from 15-501.

Mayor Waldorf asked if a large grocery store were to come in, what would that do to the available parking. Mr. Bryan said it would require about 120 parking spaces, and only 70 are available, with about 30 spaces behind the building. He said they had been unable to locate a grocery store willing to occupy that small a space.

Council Member Capowski stated the applicant had requested some changes to parking in the residential and retail area. He stated his belief that there will be more cars than there are parking spaces. Council Member Capowski asked Mr. Waldon's opinion on this. Mr. Waldon stated this was the reason the staff recommended more flexibility in the parking plan, because in order to be viable on-street parking would be a necessary. He also stated there should be adequate parking to accommodate the apartments, but they would like to offer the applicant the flexibility to respond to the demand for parking.

Council Member Capowski asked if when this development is full, will there really be enough parking spaces available. Mr. Horton stated he could not guarantee that, but they are requiring the minimum parking required. Mr. Horton stated his belief that some residents will not use cars, but will use other modes of transportation.

Council Member Capowski ask if private streets were located within the development. Mr. Waldon said no, only some private alleys. Mr. Horton said there would be no public uses of the alleys. He also stated that the homeowners association would be responsible for maintenance of the private alleys.

Council Member Brown said that originally the Council was talking about a development that would have adequate retail space which would allow the development to be somewhat self-contained. She stated she did not believe the current proposal effectively achieved this. Council Member Brown said she would like to see a Master Plan that showed what trees would be preserved, which ones would be cut down, and how traffic would move into and out of the development, including traffic which may come in from 15-501. Mr. Bryan said the current Master Plan does show the areas which will be preserved and which would be cut, based on where houses would be located. He said of the 312 acres, 115 acres is not in lots or in rights-of-way, and is considered open space.

Mayor Waldorf asked if a member of the Planning staff would visit the site with her.

Council Member Evans asked to accompany her.

Mr. Horton stated they would arrange a visit for all Council Members who were interested sometime before the proposed June 12 continuation of this hearing.

COUNCIL MEMBER PAVAO MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER CHILTON, TO RECESSED THE PUBLIC HEARING TO JUNE 12. THE MOTION WAS ADOPTED UNANIMOUSLY.

COUNCIL MEMBER PAVAO MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN, TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. THE MOTION WAS ADOPTED UNANIMOUSLY.

The meeting was recessed to June 12th at 10:05 p.m.