SUMMARY MINUTES OF A BUDGET WORK SESSION

OF THE CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 1, 2000 AT 4:00 P.M.

Mayor Rosemary Waldorf called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.

Council members present were: Flicka Bateman, Joyce Brown, Pat Evans, Kevin Foy, Bill Strom, Jim Ward, and Edith Wiggins.  Mayor pro tem Lee Pavão was absent, excused.

Staff members present were: Town Manager Cal Horton, Assistant Town Managers Sonna Loewenthal and Florentine Miller, Assistant to the Manager Bill Stockard, Planning Director Roger Waldon, Finance Director Jim Baker, Police Chief Ralph Pendergraph, Police Major Gregg Jarvies, Fire Chief Dan Jones, and Town Clerk Joyce Smith.

Budget Presentation: Planning Department

Planning Director Roger Waldon explained that his Department’s budget request represented a slight reduction from last year because last year’s budget included a consultant for the Comprehensive Plan.  Mr. Waldon also noted that the Council had recently supported a shift in a Zoning Enforcement Officer position from the Planning Department to the Inspections Department.

Mr. Waldon proposed that the Planning Department provide the same kinds of services at the same levels as last year.  He noted that revenues generated by the Planning Department are nearly all from development application fees, with a small amount coming from the sale of documents.  Pointing out that the Council had raised application fees in 1998 and again last year, he noted that there was no proposed change in fees.  

Mr. Waldon explained that there was a report on Application Fees included in the packet, which noted that although Chapel Hill’s fees are high the revenues from those fees do not recover all of the processing costs.  He added that the report also included a suggestion of what those fees might look like if the Council wanted to recover 100% of the personnel cost of processing development applications.  

Council Member Brown asked if the Public Works Department’s costs were included in the cost figure, and Mr. Waldon replied that they were.  Council Member Brown asked Mr. Waldon to give more detail on what costs he was talking about.  Mr. Waldon replied that he had been discussing personnel costs. 

Council Member Bateman asked if non-profits were subject to the same fees as everyone else.  Mr. Waldon replied that they were—unless the application proposed affordable housing, in which case the fees would be waived.  Council Member Bateman asked Mr. Waldon to say more about the radio transmitting/receiving facility mentioned under Special Use Permits.  Mr. Waldon replied that the last such facility had been a WUNC tower at the Friday Center.  He pointed out that most telecommunications facilities these days go on rooftops.  Council Member Bateman asked if there was a charge for those.  Mr. Waldon indicated that those fees could be found under “site plan review” in the packet. 

Council Member Foy asked what percentage of the total budget the “fees that would have been generated in 1998-99” represent.  Mr. Waldon replied that it was roughly 25%.  Council Member Foy asked if that corresponded roughly to what the activities cost in terms of time.  Mr. Waldon replied that slightly more than 50% of the Planning Department’s costs are personnel costs related to current development.  He said that half of that would be for processing individual applications. 

Council Member Foy asked what a “minor subdivision” was.  Mr. Waldon replied that a group of four lots or less might be considered as a minor subdivision, if it does not involve other factors that classify it as a major subdivision.  Council Member Evans asked if the fees would be waived if the application included 100% affordable housing.  Mr. Waldon indicated a footnote, which read:  “In projects where assisted units comprise only a portion of the total number of units, the fee is reduced by a percentage of the total number of units which are assisted.”  Mr. Horton added that this depends on having a recognized form of subsidy, and that private developments, which merely reduce the cost of some units, would not receive this reduction.

Council Member Strom suggested trying to recover 100% of the fee costs.   Mr. Waldon agreed, and pointed out that his figures had been based on a routine, non-complicated application.  He noted that some applications involve many more staff hours.  He said that his was a suggested fee schedule that would be a base that would reasonably assure the Town that fees would be recovered for an uncomplicated application.  He stressed the difficulty associated with not knowing up front how complicated and time-consuming an application will be.  Mr. Waldon noted that the extra effort involved in additional studies, hearings and so forth was not reflected in this information.

Council Member Strom suggested that the Department assume that there will be applications that require extra work when it estimates costs.  Mr. Horton suggested first ranking it and then letting the Council know after a few months if the numbers had been understated or were within reason.  Council Member Bateman asked that this be done across the board for all departments.  

Council Member Foy noted that, for example, the Parks and Recreation Department’s time spent on applications was not coded so that the staff could tell that it was for the Planning Department.   Mr. Horton said that it would not be difficult to begin tracking for this purpose, adding that it would be useful to have this information if the Town had to defend higher rates in court.  Mayor Waldorf commented that it would be interesting if the Council ultimately concluded that applications required too much review and were too costly.

Council Member Evans expressed concern that tripling the cost of Master Land Use Plans would discourage people from using the Master Land Use planning process.   She suggested looking critically at what the effects might be on housing costs and on what kind of development might be encouraged and discouraged by subdividing fees.  Mr. Waldon responded that he was recommending an increase in the base of the Master Land Use Plan but that this was a minor component of the cost of a Master Plan.

Council Member Brown asked what it would mean for the next fiscal year if the fee schedule were changed in the way Mr. Waldon had outlined in the report.   Pointing out that these estimates were all guesses, Mr. Waldon replied that it might result in $50,000-80,000 in additional revenue if the Town adjusted fees the way he had outlined. 

Council Member Brown requested more information about personnel costs and functions, other than development.  Mr. Waldon replied that the two main functions were: long-range development, and planning.  He described each of those.  Council Member Brown, noting that 60% was development and 40% was long-range planning, asked what percent of the 60% would be covered by the increased fee schedule.  Mr. Waldon replied that less than half of the Planning Department’s current development staff expenses would be covered by the fee schedule.

Mayor Waldorf asked why the personnel costs for 2000-2001 were about $53,000 higher than what was estimated for this year.  She noted that a position was being shifted out of the Planning Department and to Inspections.  Mr. Waldon replied that he did not have an answer to that, but offered to find out.  Council Member Wiggins asked if the Department was anticipating any increase in staff.  Mr. Waldon replied that it was not. 

Council Member Strom, noting he was new to the Council, asked for clarification on the budget process.  Mr. Horton explained that he had not yet accumulated data and had not made any final reviews of any departments.  He said that he was not surprised that the Planning Department’s presentation had been “a little rough” because it was not a budget presentation but one listing key budget issues.

Mayor Waldorf added that the process allowed the Council to make a decision about raising fees today or to keep it on a list of possible new enhancing options to be assessed at a later date.  Council Member Brown suggested that the Council state that a majority of them will be interested in increasing fees without yet saying how much.  Mayor Waldorf asked if a majority was interested, and Council members indicated that they were. 

Council Member Foy asked if this would mean that the Department would have to show two budgets.  Mr. Waldon replied that based on the feedback the staff had just received from the Council the Manager would be presenting a recommendation for a revised fee schedule.  Mr. Horton acknowledged that even if the Council had not wanted to raise fees, he felt compelled to present that as an alternative to increasing taxes.  He stressed that the fee schedule would take the costs incurred in other departments into account and would respect any advice the Council might give on this.

Council Member Foy suggested going forward with the revised fee schedule, adding that he did not need to see alternatives.   He recommended finding out what the other costs were, and pointed out that it is rational to shift direct costs as much as possible.  Mr. Horton proposed accumulating cost information over several months.  He said that another way to do that would be to employ a firm (D. W. G. Maximus) to do a contemporaneous review and recommend a fee schedule that would reflect costs in a real and accurate way, which would stand up in court.

Mr. Horton said that such a study could pay for itself if additional fees come in as a result.  But, he pointed out, if the study concluded that the Town’s present fees are sufficient, then the Town would have paid for the study without receiving more income.  Mr. Horton noted that the more conservative approach would be for the Town to do its own study. 

Council Member Strom asked if a firm such as D. W. G. Maximus would look at the Town’s privilege licenses and other revenue fee structures and make recommendations on how to restructure those.  Mr. Horton said that he did not know. 

Council Member Ward asked how this would compare to in-house tracking as far as time spent.  Mr. Horton replied that in-house tracking could start in three to four weeks and would run for at least six months.  He said that using an outside firm might be faster, but he was not sure that it would be fast enough to help in terms of this budget year.   Mr. Horton added that the firm might be able to give a preliminary assessment of the fee schedule, and added that it might be worth learning more about this approach.  Council Member Ward expressed support for pursuing the study so that the Town could have documentation in place if it challenged. 

Council Member Brown suggested agreeing to the fees for this budget year, since the Council would not be able to get more information in time to raise them.  Mr. Horton noted that he had not had a chance to review the Planning Department’s estimate, but would not be as reluctant as Mr. Waldon might be to pass costs on to developers.  He said that he and Finance Director Jim Baker might push the number a little harder than Mr. Waldon had.

Mayor Waldorf requested that the staff come in with a budget that recommends increasing fees to a level that they believe is defensible.

Council Member Strom suggested that the fees represent the “full cost of service.”

Mayor Waldorf asked if the budget presented by Mr. Waldon had been that.  Mr. Waldon replied that his working assumption had been to present a “no complications application, very basic and easy. ”  Mr. Horton added that Mr. Waldon had been conservative, and repeated his opinion that the number could be higher and still defensible in court. 

Council Member Bateman asked if the staff could also get an estimate that would show the full cost of service, just to see what that would be.   Mr. Horton replied that they could provide that to the extent possible.   Council Member Bateman asked if anything would prohibit the Council from changing the fees after the analysis of the six-month data.  Mr. Horton replied that the Council could change the fee any time they thought it was necessary.

Council Member Brown noted that raising fees might help keep taxes down.  Mr. Horton replied that they would make “a very determined hunt for those kinds of dollars.”  Mayor Waldorf pointed out that two Council members had recommended that the Manager come up with the best possible estimate of fees that would cover the full cost of service.  She asked what other Council members wanted. 

Before answering, Council Member Evans noted that part of the full cost would depend on how many reports, studies, or additional pieces of information various committees, departments and so forth requested.  She expressed concern about the fairness of this, adding that she was not sure if these requests were due to inadequate information supplied by the applicant or were driven by a quest for more knowledge.  Mr. Horton replied that this was something for the Council to comment on. 

Mayor Waldorf said that she believed they had asked the staff to come back with an estimate, which reflects Planning Department work on development review.   Mr. Horton said that he had heard the Council ask for two different things: (1) bring back a proposal that reflects, as best the staff understands it, the full cost of development processing, and (2) include, as a part of that, the cost of processing time by the Manager, the Public Works Department, the Parks and Recreation Department, and others that may not be captured in the numbers that Mr. Waldon has traditionally worked with.

Mayor Waldorf asked if Mr. Horton was saying that the second part probably could not be figured out and calculated for this budget.  Mr. Horton said that they could estimate it but that he would not want to go to court on that figure.

Council Member Foy said that he had understood the Manager to suggest doing a study over several months, but approving only what they could defend for this budget.  

Council Member Evans again asked if the figure would include the cost of everything that the boards, Commissions and the Council requested.  Mr. Horton replied that it would not because they do not have the data for that. 

Council Member Brown suggested doing two studies—one for this budget year and then another full-cost one, which would take longer.

Council Member Strom said that he would like to have some of the additional information included this year, but if that were not possible then he would be comfortable with what Council Member Brown was proposing.

Council Member Ward requested that the staff come back with information about the positive and negative implications of making such changes in the fee schedule.  In general, Council members agreed with Council Member Brown’s proposal. 

Council Member Foy ascertained that the Planning Department had fourteen and a half positions.

Council Member Wiggins noted that a higher fee might cause developers to get it right the first time and Council members to give clearer directions as to what they expect.

Council Member Evans noted that it might be good to have a baseline application fee, which would require dues for so many hours of work with extra charges for work beyond that.  Mr. Horton pointed out that they never know what the level of public interest might be.  He said that it usually is not the applicant’s failure but the amount of public interest that drives the amount of time involved in a review. 

Council Member Strom asked when the right time would be to talk about how there is no annual fee for Zoning Compliance Permits for home occupations.  Mayor Waldorf cautioned that doing so could build a lot of ill will in Town.   Mr. Waldon added that there were no additional annual costs incurred by this.  He pointed out that the $50 fee is low because many permits can be issued on the spot.  Mr. Horton added that the Town wants to encourage people who have home occupations to come in and get information.

Budget Presentation: Police Department

Retiring Police Chief Ralph Pendergraph thanked Council members, past and present, for the support, direction and guidance they had given him.  He described having mixed emotions about leaving his position.  The worst part, he said, was that he would miss the people he had worked with.  He then introduced Major Gregg Jarvies to make the Police Department’s presentation

Major Jarvies said that the proposed budget for the coming year would allow the Department to provide the services and programs that are necessary to maintain their mission, which is to provide quality and fair services throughout the community on a timely basis.  He said that they did not plan to make any significant program changes this year. 

Regarding the revenue picture for next year, Major Jarvies referred to page three of the handout.  He explained that there would be a significant reduction in revenue this year because two U.S. Department of Justice community policing grants, totaling approximately $320,000, will expire this summer.  Major Jarvies said that those grants have funded 75% of the cost of nine and a half positions in the Police Department.  He pointed out that the Department was seeking funding from the School System for about 80% of the four school-based officer positions.

Major Jarvies noted that over the past five years the Department had received approximately $1.2 million in grant funds.  Referring to the base budget cost estimates, he said that the request for approximately $6.5 million for Personnel reflects a slight decrease from last year.  He added, though, that the figure did not include the cost of the four school officers or the cost of one police officer position that they intend to leave vacant for the year.   Major Jarvies pointed out that the decrease was offset by a fairly significant amount of money that will be used to pay retirement benefits.  He added that there had been nine officers who had retired in the last 15 months. 

Major Jarvies reported a slight increase in the Operations line item, which he said reflected an increase in client fees and treatment fees.  He explained that the Police Department anticipates a 100% increase in the number of clients this year because of a new arrangement with the court system where the Department will see all drug-related cases for first time offenders. 

Major Jarvies said that the primary focus next year would be on narcotics and alcohol violations.  He added that there had been an increase in levels of drug use in the community and also in the types of drugs used.  Major Jarvies said that drug use had affected all socio-economic levels and was related to many other crimes, such as vehicle break-ins.  He remarked that this was not only a law enforcement issue but a crime and public welfare issue as well.

Major Jarvies said that the majority of neighborhood disputes, assaults and general crimes were connected to narcotics or alcohol.  He stressed that the Department would be particularly aggressive in curtailing the use and sale of alcohol, especially when it concerns minors. 

Major Jarvies said that the number one complaint in Chapel Hill, other than noise, is traffic.  He stated that the Department would continue to monitor, enforce and educate the public regarding traffic violations.  He said that they would continue to enhance community outreach programs in the neighborhoods, including community watch and crime prevention programs.

Council Member Jim Ward asked how the Operations cost reflected the computer system the Council had previously discussed.   Major Jarvies replied that the first year costs would be covered by current funds on hand, and were not in the proposed budget.

Council Member Wiggins inquired about the five and a half positions that would not be funded after the first quarter.  Major Jarvies replied that they had been required by the terms of the grant to fund the positions for at least 12 months after expiration of the grant.  He said that the Department does not intend to seek exception from that.  Council Member Wiggins ascertained that those salaries were reflected in the budget.  She said that they probably would add about $212,000 to the School System funding for those four positions, but noted that this was not reflected in the figures.

Mayor Waldorf added that the Town was taking a very firm position in negotiations with the School System and that she hoped the Town would soon get a response.

Council Member Foy asked if the Town would retain the four officers if the School System did not come through with funding.  Mr. Horton replied that they would discontinue the school program and assign the police officers to other positions unless the Council instructs them to continue.

Council Member Foy asked how Project Turn Around generated revenues.  Major Jarvies replied that client fees and County contribution were the two main sources of revenue.  

Council Member Foy asked how they accounted for the cost of special events and if those are a significant cost to the Police Department.  Major Jarvies replied that it depends on how well the Tar Heels do.  Mr. Horton added that there had not been significant costs this spring.   Major Jarvies noted that Halloween and NCAA celebrations each cost about $25,000-$30,000, with the total cost for Halloween for all operations this year being $52,000.  He said that Apple Chill and Festifall each cost $4,000-$5,000.      

Council Member Brown asked if there was any way to make money from the Halloween celebration.  Mr. Horton replied that the difficulty in sponsoring the event would be the liability that would come with it.  He pointed out that the Town has been a reluctant host for the Halloween event.  He said that if the Town sponsored it in any way, such as collecting admission or a contribution, then it would likely be a third party defendant in a lawsuit if, for example, someone were killed by a drunken driver.

Council Member Strom asked if the separation/retirement benefit was recurring or just an annual item.  Major Jarvies replied that it was an annual item, adding that every retiree to the age of 62 receives a supplemental retirement benefit on top of their local government benefit as required by State law.  

Council Member Strom asked if there was a particular item that caused the Operations budget to drop.  Major Jarvies replied that they had eliminated computer costs.  Mr. Horton explained that computer costs are now spread out over several years with an annual amortized cost rather than a one time capital cost.

Council Member Evans asked how many officers are dedicated to speed enforcement.  Major Jarvies replied that there were five positions allocated.  He said that the Department was staffing four and was carrying nine vacancies, with officers and recruits in school.  Major Jarvies noted than many of the patrol officers were radar certified and work with traffic as well when time permitted.  He stated that four officers were fully dedicated to speed enforcement, adding that by August there will be five.  Council Member Evans commented that the Town must do something about the condition of the Police Department building.

Council Member Bateman asked if any officers spoke Spanish or were in Spanish language classes.   Major Jarvies replied that the Department had added four bilingual officers during the last two years.  He said that fulfilling a Spanish language course was now a requirement of the Career Progression Program.  Major Jarvies noted that the Department was seeking a grant through the Governor’s Crime Commission to specifically target victims of crimes, domestic violence, and sexual assault who are Spanish speaking.  He said that they were aware of the problems, particularly with victims, and were making an effort to increase their fluency in Spanish.

Chief Pendergraph added that the four Latino officers had been “super,” not only in responding when called on but also in keeping an ear out for when they could be of help.  Council Member Bateman asked if a Spanish-speaking person would be understood if s/he called the Police Department at 9:00 p.m.  Chief Pendergraph replied that there was a Spanish speaking officer working each of the four shifts and that the Department also subscribes to a 24-hour on-call translating service, which he said had worked well.  Mayor Waldorf noted that there also was a bilingual crisis counselor.

Mayor Waldorf asked what the outlook was for future community policing grants, as the Town needs more officers.  Major Jarvies replied that there were funds available and that Congress had requested an increase in funding across the country.  He said that the Town had been communicating frequently with Washington regarding what was available and when.

Mayor Waldorf asked what levels of turnover the Department was experiencing, other than retirement, and what the reasons for it were.  Major Jarvies replied that there had been an 8-10% turnover during the last three years.  He explained that most of those officers had moved on to state and federal agencies.  Major Jarvies stressed that the problem was in recruiting.  He explained that the Town had not filled all of its vacancies, having found only seven out of 4,000 applicants who were appropriate for service in Chapel Hill.

Mayor Waldorf asked how the Department had been able to more than triple its number of drug arrests last year with the same number of officers.   Major Jarvies replied that it was the result of more coordination with other agencies, more interaction between the Narcotics Unit and Patrol officers, cooperation from the courts, and citizens calling in and giving information.  Mr. Horton added that the Town was especially grateful to the judges who had effectively banned people from going back into the areas where they had been arrested for illegal activities.  Mayor Waldorf asked if all of the District Court judges were doing that now, and Major Jarvies replied that they were.

Mayor Waldorf asked if the rule for Project Turn Around continued to be that it had to be a drug offense that did not involve a weapon.  Major Jarvies replied that it was.  Mayor Waldorf praised that program and noted that it had begun with a small grant.

Budget Presentation: Fire Department

Fire Chief Dan Jones noted that the Fire Department was facing issues of new technologies and growth.  He said that they had been significantly impacted this year by the Council’s decision last year to add six new positions and a small attack pumper at the Elliott Road Fire Station.  Chief Jones stated that this had been the first step in a three-step process, which will include six additional firefighters this year, giving the 12 needed to open the new station at Southern Village.  He explained that the Department would request six additional personnel next year to put the mini-pumper back in place.     

Chief Jones stated that the Department’s base budget was within the guidelines.  He noted that they have an aging fleet, which is an increasing maintenance demand, and said that they had been working with Public Works to try and address that.  He added that they would also be contracting out some maintenance work on the pumpers.  

Chief Jones noted that they had added dollars to the building maintenance account.  He pointed out that the Capital Improvements project that the Council had authorized to renovate the training facility had been completed.  Chief Jones explained that the Department had ongoing replacement issues for fire hoses and radios and so forth, but had a program in place for replacing them on a schedule.  The exception, he said, was that they are facing replacing their entire breathing apparatus due to large technological advances in the industry and upgraded standards.  Chief Jones said that the Department should be coming back to the Council in the spring with bids to begin construction of the Southern Village fire station. 

Council Member Bateman asked how many of the firefighters in each division are Spanish-speaking.  Chief Jones replied that there were only two employees at the current time who were Spanish-speaking.  In the Administration Division, he explained, there were four.  He stated that there were fifty-four in the Suppression Division and three in the Prevention Division. 

Council Member Bateman asked why the Town was hiring six firefighters a year before the station was ready.   Chief Jones replied that the plan was to have that fire station open by July 2001. He explained that new firefighters needed to be trained and acclimated to the system, procedures, equipment, and layout of the community.  He said that they needed six months to do that, and noted that the Manager had challenged him to do it in three months, which would be difficult, he said. 

Mr. Horton pointed out that firefighting depends on coordinated, skilled teamwork.  He noted that it takes time for new people to learn this and for more experienced employees to understand it.   Mr. Horton agreed that six months would be preferable, but added that since the Town could not afford that this year he thought it could be done in three.

Mayor Waldorf asked if the $292,000 was for six positions for a full year, pointing out that the staff was recommending half that figure.  Mr. Horton said that he would recommend half of that amount. 

Council Member Foy asked how the Town would pay for fire service if it annexed Southern Village in June but could not have the fire station ready until September.  Mr. Horton replied that it could be provided from other stations, or, as an alternate, Southern Village could continue to use the services that are provided in that area by North Chatham Fire Department.  Council Member Foy asked if the Town would pay for that.  Mr. Horton replied that they would, noting that there would be costs associated it in any case.  Council Member Foy asked how much it would cost.  Chief Jones answered that it would be negotiated with North Chatham.  Mr. Horton pointed out that the Town probably would cover from other stations and avoid that cost.  Chief Jones stated that he was optimistic that the station would be open by July 1^st, but, if not, another option would be to temporarily house some personnel and a pumper in that part of Town, since it will be summertime.

Council Member Ward asked if costs for the training position and the Inspector 2000 tracking program were included in the budget.  Chief Jones replied that they would be add-ons.  Council Member Ward asked what the best estimates were for potential revenue from training facility user fees.  Chief Jones replied that they had proposed that the fire training public education position combine two former positions because of revenue problems this year.  He said that Inspector 2000 is a software program for computers in the field, which would make it a much more efficient operation

Chief Jones said that he did not see the training facility generating much revenue because those who use it (except for the Town of Carrboro) do not contribute to its renovation.  He explained that he had proposed user fees to try and recover the costs of wear and tear on the facility.

Council Member Wiggins asked if the Fire Department was facing a challenge to stay fully staffed.  Chief Jones replied that there had been no problems finding recruits, but the Department does have trouble finding a diverse group of recruits.  He said that they are aggressively pursuing that.  Council Member Wiggins asked about the Fire Academy, which had been set up for that purpose.  Chief Jones said that his staff was too limited now to continue that program. 

Council Member Ward observed that the Fire and Police Departments’ budgets had both increased.  He asked for comments from the Manager on how to “get a grip” on that kind of growth.  Mr. Horton explained that this was the first increase for the Fire Department since 1982.  He pointed out that there had been no change in basic personnel for 17 years, and commented that they should be able to go several more years without another such increase.

Council Member Foy asked when the Council would see revenue projections for Southern Village.  Mr. Horton replied that there was a hearing on annexation scheduled for March 20^th.  He said that the Council would have a tighter set of numbers on cost and revenues then.

Council Member Strom asked if the revenue from the State to provide services to the UNC campus was fixed or negotiated.  Mr. Horton replied that it had been a fixed number for many years, having gone up from zero.  He said that the Town was grateful to have the new level of funding and that it probably would stay at that level unless political conditions were to change.  Mayor Waldorf added that the State Legislature had determined the amount. 

Mr. Horton commented that a very large percentage of false alarms come from the UNC campus.  He said that the Town would be looking at assessing some penalties for those alarms. 

Council Member Brown asked how close the State funding comes to the actual cost of serving the campus.  Chief Jones replied that it makes up about 25% of the budget and that service to UNC costs between 28% and 30% of the budget.  Mayor Waldorf noted that there were capital equipment issues as well, adding that she was not sure that the Town would have had to buy the ladder truck if it were not for the campus.  Mr. Horton replied that the Town would still have needed the truck because there are houses in Town that are as big as commercial buildings.

Council Member Ward asked if the Council could add this to their list of legislative matters.  Mayor Waldorf replied that they could, but expressed concern that the funding might be taken away if too much attention were drawn to it.  Mr. Horton added that the Town had to beg last time to hold on to that funding.

Mayor Waldorf asked Chief Jones to comment on the Fire Department’s lack of a thermal imaging camera.  Chief Jones described the various advantages of having such a camera (particularly the ability to see through smoke) and outlined the attempts the Department had made (including approaching the University) to fund one for each truck.  Mayor Waldorf reacted enthusiastically to the idea of asking the University and suggested bringing it up with the Board of Trustees.  She noted that the Town needed five cameras and said she believed this was important even though they cost $25,000 each.

Council Member Bateman volunteered to help raise funds for the cameras.  

The meeting was adjourned at 6:25 p.m.