SUMMARY MINUTES OF A WORK SESSION
OF THE CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL
ON THE AQUATICS/COMMUNITY CENTER
AT HOMESTEAD PARK, PHASE TWO
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2000, AT 5:00 P.M.
Mayor Waldorf called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Council members present were Flicka Bateman, Joyce Brown, Pat Evans, Lee Pavão, Bill Strom, and Jim Ward, Edith Wiggins. Council Member Kevin Foy arrived at 5:20 p.m.
Staff members present were Town Manager Cal Horton, Assistant Town Managers Sonna Loewenthal and Florentine Miller, Town Attorney Ralph Karpinos, Assistant to the Manager Bill Stockard, Parks and Recreation Director Kathryn Spatz, Development Planner Rob Wilson, and Town Clerk Joyce Smith.
Presentation by Committee Members
Mayor Waldorf asked Committee Chair John Covach to introduce himself and other Committee members who were present. Mr. Covach introduced Dick Valenti, Dan Murphy and Rob Wilson, as well as Josh Gurlitz and Kathryn Spatz, of the Parks and Recreation Department.
Mr. Covach, referring to the charge given to the Committee, said that the Committee had tried to achieve every point in the charge without exceeding it.
Josh Gurlitz reviewed the Committee's process, which had started off with meetings to develop background information for an aquatic center. He said the goal had been to create a needs report to determine what kind of a facility the community wanted. Phase I, Mr. Gurlitz explained, consisted of information gathering to produce the needs report, including public meetings, interviews with interests groups, and meetings with the Parks and Recreation Department staff.
The Committee also created an energy conservation evaluation for complying with Town rules and regulations and with good policy in general.
Mr. Gurlitz explained that the Committee is now completing phase two. He reported that they had worked with the consultant to adapt national standards and methods to the needs identified in Phase I. Mr. Gurlitz pointed out that the Committee did not expect to decide on a building at the end of Phase II, but rather a series of components which could be arranged into a facility.
Mr. Gurlitz noted the "opinion of revenues" and the "opinion of operating costs" sections of the report, which he explained had been based on standard MSA statistics and had not yet been developed specifically for Chapel Hill criteria. The report also included an "opinion of the cost of the facility," he said, which was based on arranging the components in a variety of ways. Mr. Gurlitz strongly recommended that the Council read the introduction to the "opinion of cost" section because it included assumptions that the Committee did and did not make in developing cost figures.
Mr. Gurlitz stated that the second phase would conclude with tonight's work session. He said that the information that they take back to the Committee would influence the work they do on the third phase, which will be to develop a conceptual design for the building and come up with a specific project.
Mr. Covach pointed out that the Committee had not only been charged with investigating an aquatic facility, but with gathering information on a community center as well. He said they had interpreted a community center as something which might have program space for various activities that did not directly relate to aquatics. Mr. Covach said the Committee had priced out the options for different possibilities without making decisions about which to include in the project. He stressed that the Committee had come to the Council for guidance on which options to pursue, and listed the components they had looked at:
The core building. The Committee saw a need for a multipurpose community room and program space for gymnastics, aerobics, and other Parks and Recreation Department activities. They also saw a need for administrative space, and thought that this building could be the core around which the rest of the facility would be built.
Mr. Covach explained that various combinations of these facilities, listed in the "Summary of Opinions," all include a core building. He said that the Committee had recommended "core plus," with the "plus" being one or more of the various options mentioned above. Mr. Covach noted that the Committee had not priced the core plus 50-meter venue facility because they felt that was too far out on the upper end of the spectrum.
Mr. Covach indicated the page entitled "An Opinion of Cash Flow," which he said could be used to estimate revenues versus costs of running the facility after the pool has been paid for. He noted that the return would be more than 50% of operating costs with either the 25-meter or 50-meter pools and that nearly all operating expenses could be recovered with the leisure/therapeutic pool. Mr. Covach pointed out that the leisure pool is the most efficient option nationally.
Mr. Covach said the high expenses of building a pool had led the Committee to a discussion of whether or not Chapel Hill citizens would be served by such a facility. He noted that there is a very strong and vocal contingent of citizens who really want the lap pool. But, Mr. Covach said, there also are many who want a leisure/therapeutic pool and families and other recreational swimmers who might prefer a leisure pool in the community. He stated that it seemed to the Committee that a leisure pool would have the potential of serving a larger number of citizens.
Mr. Covach explained that the combination of a core facility, a 25 x 25 lap pool, and a leisure/therapeutic pool would cost about $8.5 million. He said that the Committee was turning to the Council for guidance on which options to choose. He asked Council members to focus their discussion on two issues:
· How do Council members feel about the projected costs? Are some options unacceptable? Does the Council wish to establish a cost range to guide the Committee's formulation of its recommendation?
· If the Committee is advised to decide between recommending only a lap pool or a leisure/therapeutic pool, how should it balance the conflicting community needs and desires?
Mr. Covach advised Council members that discussing individual components would take time and would duplicate work that the Committee had already done. He asked Council members to decide whether the Committee was on the right track and to advise them as to which options would work best for the community.
Mayor Waldorf concurred with Mr. Covach's suggestion to stick with the broad issues rather than discussing details at this meeting.
Mr. Covach introduced Roger Hayes, and noted that Council Member Joyce Brown had worked with the Committee on this project.
Council Member Foy, noting that the Town had about $2 million in bond money, asked if those bonds had been issued. Mr. Horton replied that they had not. Council Member Foy asked what the amortized cost of the bonds would be. Mr. Horton replied that, assuming a 5-1/2% interest rate and 20 years, payment would be $105,000 per year for each million dollars that the Council issues. At a 6% interest rate, the payment would be $110,000 per year for each million, Mr. Horton said.
In response to a question by Council Member Evans, Mr. Covach explained that none of the figures for the pool included costs for maintenance of the core facility.
Council Member Bill Strom asked how much the Town would have to raise prices to achieve the recapture rates indicated in the report. Parks and Recreation Director Kathryn Spatz replied that it would be at least double what the Town now charges for annual swim passes.
Mr. Covach commented that the Town would have to reconfigure its rate structure, adding that this was being done across the country.
Council Member Jim Ward suggested determining what the future of the present Community Center would be before giving guidance on this new project. He asked if there had been any discussions about sharing resources with UNC Hospitals for the therapeutic pool, and if the Town of Carrboro and the booster clubs were willing to participate in funding. Mr. Horton replied that the staff would gather that information to the best of its ability. Ms. Spatz explained that a consultant had examined the Community Center building and found that there were many structural problems.
Council Member Bateman asked what the price of a 25 x 25 versus a 50-meter pool would be. Mr. Gurlitz replied that he could not separate that out because all of the figures include the core building. He agreed to provide the figure at a later time. Council Member Bateman revealed that UNC had given her a figure of $269,000 for a tank, heating equipment and ramp. Ms. Spatz stated that no one builds just a pool and hopes to generate any revenue. She said that they build them with a fitness center, for example, which is low maintenance as opposed to a pool which is a high maintenance facility.
Council Member Foy, following up on Council Member Bateman's question about the cost of the pool, asked for clarification of the $2.4 million figure. Mr. Gurlitz explained that this figure included a pool and a pool deck, which is a costly part of the project. Council Member Foy inquired about the pool size at the Hillsborough Sportsplex. Council Member Bateman replied that it was 25x25. Council Member Foy asked for comments on how many Chapel Hill residents feel that Hillsborough is too far to go. He wondered if Northern Community Park was the right location for Chapel Hill's pool, since it is close to Hillsborough.
Committee Member Dan Murphy explained that parents worry about high school kids driving to the Sportsplex. He said that the concern was about more than just location, adding that Chapel Hill's two high school swim teams probably get the lowest amount of practice of "any team ever." Mr. Murphy explained that the teams have to split shifts, and that there are too few lanes at the Community Center Pool. He said that the teams cannot practice at the Sportsplex because it is always booked up.
Council Member Evans asked if cost estimates for the 25x25 pool included locker rooms, etc. Mr. Gurlitz replied that lockers, offices, and administrative offices for the facility were all included in the core figure. Council Member Evans said it would be helpful to see figures for the pool, locker rooms, entryway, and mechanical facility separated out. Mr. Gurlitz agreed to extract those figures, explaining that they had not done that yet because they were looking for direction from the Council.
Council Member Evans requested the preliminary cost estimate of phase III of the YMCA's pool, which had been approved by the Town. She said she would like to see that for comparison purposes.
Council Member Strom noted that it would be helpful to him to understand the financial relationship between the Town and the School System. He wondered what changes might occur in that relationship with regard to pool usage. Council Member Strom asked if the leisure pool at the Sportsplex had come close to achieving the expected revenue. Mr. Gurlitz replied that he thought it had not.
Committee Member Rob Wilson explained that what had been referred to as a leisure pool at the Sportsplex was really just a warm water tank with a basketball hoop at one end. He said that the Committee's report describes a pool with a slide, fountains, and other play features. Mr. Horton added that the pool the Committee had discussed would be more like a commercial water park.
Council Member Strom said that he would like to see figures from that Sportsplex pool because they are relevant to the Council's decision-making process. He asked Mr. Gurlitz to explain the "efficiency factor" in the budget. Mr. Gurlitz stated that the "efficiency factor" included walls, corridors, bathrooms, stairways—all the spaces that were not actual program space.
Council Member Bateman remarked that the YMCA team and the two high school teams would fill up the new pool. She noted that some would still have to go to the Sportsplex because 11 lanes are not enough for all three swim teams, fitness swimmers, and others. Mr. Murphy replied that this argues in favor of the 50-meter pool because that would have 18 or 20 lanes.
Council Member Brown asked how staff space, meeting space, and other recreational needs would be met if the core facility were not included. She noted that even the lowest estimate is higher than the approximately $1.5 million that is available, adding that the Council should begin grappling with how to raise more money.
Mayor Waldorf noted that if County bond funds are added in there is close to $2 million. She suggested looking into cost sharing and explained that Carrboro Alderman Jackie Gist had suggested that Carrboro share in this project.
Mayor Waldorf asked the Committee if they had discussed contributions by the School System, since there is such a high need for a pool for the high school swim teams. Mr. Covach replied that such discussions had happened only informally. He added that the Committee did not think it was their charge to figure out how to pay for this.
Council Member Brown asked if it would be more economical to build the core facility and pool at the same time.
Mr. Covach, commenting that he would put in a brief pitch for the core facility, pointed out that Homestead Park already has a skateboard park, batting cages, and soccer, baseball and softball fields. He said that it would be an even more exciting location if the offices of Parks and Recreation were there in addition to the pool. Mr. Covach pointed out that the Committee had already gone through the process of scaling back. He acknowledged that the figures might be off a bit, but asked if that would change the Council's opinion about the two questions he had asked at the beginning of the meeting:
· How do Council members feel about the projected costs? Are some options unacceptable? Does the Council wish to establish a cost range to guide the Committee's formulation of its recommendation?
· If the Committee is advised to decide between recommending only a lap pool or a leisure/therapeutic pool, how should it balance the conflicting community needs and desires?
Council Member Ward asked if the $2.4 million included the building. Mr. Gurlitz replied that it did, adding that the core building was based on an "opinion of cost" of $110 per square foot, which he described as a "good solid institutional cost." He said that the 25-meter x 25-yard pool would be about $200 per square foot and would include the deck, the tank, and the shell around it. Mr. Gurlitz said that the corridors associated with that would cost about $100 per square foot.
Council Member Ward asked if the Committee had looked at a pool that could be open-air during the summer. Mr. Gurlitz said that the issue had been raised. He added that there was such a pool in Burlington, which had been built as an open pool, where the municipality put a bubble around it during the winter. Ms. Spatz noted that the municipality had been very unhappy with that decision. They spent $10,000 per month last year on energy, she explained, and had already replaced the bubble twice.
Council Member Ward stated that the Committee had presented the components in a different arrangement from how he would like to see them. He said that he could envision the Town starting with the basic 25 x 25 pool, locker room, rest room, and reception space and then phasing in the leisure and/or therapeutic tank later on. Council Member Ward asked if there was pool time available at the Sportsplex for high school teams, noting that it might be cheaper to provide transit service to that facility than to build a new pool.
Mr. Wilson replied that the YMCA swim team rents eight of the eleven lanes five days a week from September through May, and the Sportsplex prefers to keep the other three lanes open for lap swimmers. He said that the YMCA team uses the pool from after school to about 6:00 p.m. and then the New Wave swim team from Durham comes in from 6:00-8:30. Mr. Wilson commented that there might be early morning space available.
Mr. Covach clarified that Council Member Ward was asking for an estimate without the multi-purpose meeting room/community space and the administrative space and with a more basic entranceway and administrative area. Council Member Ward said that was correct, adding that he would like to see a "bare bones" estimate.
Council Member Wiggins emphasized the importance of having a core building, regardless of the size of the pool, even if there is no gymnasium. She argued that the Town needs more multipurpose meeting rooms and community spaces, and remarked that the Community Center building on Plant Road was in terrible condition. Council Member Wiggins stated that it makes sense to have some administrative space in this building and that it seemed more economical to plan for a greater need than to try and add to it later on.
Council Member Wiggins noted that the facility must have locker rooms and custodial support, and encouraged Council members to acknowledge the importance of this. She asked Council members to decide whether the Town needs a pool and/or a gymnasium. Council Member Wiggins said that she would like to hear more about why the Town needs a gym given the two at Hargraves and the Community Center. She suggested perhaps putting the new gym in the southern part of Town. Council Member Wiggins asked Council members not to lose sight of how important the core building is.
Council Member Brown agreed that the Town must address the staff needs. She asked if it was correct that phasing a project is more expensive than building the entire thing at once. Mr. Gurlitz replied that the gymnasium and core could be phased, but that the unnatural environment and energy system required for the tanks would not allow them to be added to incrementally. Mr. Gurlitz explained that this is why the decision regarding the number of tanks must be made early.
Council Member Brown, noting that a leisure pool would enhance the community, asked other Council members to continue discussing that kind of facility.
Council Member Strom asked Ms. Spatz where these facilities fit into her Department's master plan process. Ms. Spatz replied that the Parks and Recreation Department had heard more about the need for programming space than they had about the pool during public hearings. She said that the master plan should be ready to go to the Council in February or March.
Council Member Bateman, pointing out that the Town did not have enough money to meet all of the needs, reminded Council members that the bond had been presented as a community pool facility. She suggested not putting two tanks in Homestead Park, recommended obtaining input on a leisure pool at Southern Park, and suggested perhaps converting the Community Center pool to a therapeutic one. Council Member Bateman also suggested arranging a meeting for public comment on this issue.
Council Member Evans noted that the Committee's needs analysis stated that they did not know if the 50-meter UNC facility was available for team practice and/or meets. She asked if the Committee had explored that. Mr. Wilson replied that both UNC facilities seem to be programmed to the maximum and that others had been turned away for practice time and meets.
Council Member Evans noted that there were therapeutic pools at Carolina Meadows and Carol Woods. She suggested finding out where others might be in order to determine if there really is a need for a new therapeutic pool.
Council Member Wiggins asked if $2 million was the amount available for this project. Mr. Horton replied that it was, noting that the Town would be taking on additional debt for this since a pool with basic facilities would require more funding.
Council Member Foy noted that the goal of the Carrboro/Chapel Hill/Orange County Parks Task Force was to combine resources and he suggested referring this to that Task Force. He also suggested getting a commitment from the other parties for some help with funding. Council Member Foy said the task force should also look at sharing the capital and operating expenses each year.
Mayor Waldorf agreed that if the Town is going to build a pool it would be good to have other facilities and uses in the core building. She challenged the need for a gymnasium at that location, however, since there is one being built at Smith Middle School. Mayor Waldorf noted that the schools now have an open door policy.
Mr. Covach summarized that Council members wanted a 25-meter by 25-yard pool without the leisure/therapeutic pool and the gymnasium, but several objected to eliminating anything from discussion.
Mr. Horton suggested that the staff provide a follow-up report with answers to the questions Council members had raised and with information about available funds and alternate financing methods. He said that the staff would provide a resolution that would forward questions and issues about joint financing to Carrboro and Orange County.
Council Member Strom supported Mr. Horton's suggestion, but recommended that the Council wait for the Parks and Recreation Department's master plan before making decisions regarding these facilities. Mr. Horton noted that the Council had given the staff permission to search for a new location for its public works facility. He added that the staff had continued to work on the 15-year comprehensive capital program and should have a progress report after the first of the year.
Mr. Horton explained that the capital maintenance report would include the results of a review of the Town's major properties and a projection of the need for capital maintenance at each of them. He pointed out that this would give the Council a more complete picture, and offered to provide the capital maintenance report within the next 30 to 45 days. Mr. Horton added that the Town Library and the Parks and Recreation Department master plan studies would soon be available as well.
Council Member Brown asked to hear more from the public about the need for a family facility. Council Member Bateman requested this as well. Mayor Waldorf asked if there was a consensus on the Council that they should schedule time for comments from citizens at one of their regular Council meetings. Council members agreed, and Mayor Waldorf emphasized the need to get publicity out about the choices that they would be deliberating.
Council Member Ward stated that it would be helpful to have information from the staff before the public hearing process. Council members agreed, and Mr. Horton suggested aiming for the December meeting. Mayor Waldorf asked about referring the matter to the County-wide task force, and Council members agreed by consensus to let the task force know that the Council will have further information at the end of the year.
Council Member Foy asked Mr. Horton to include potential funding options in the report that he brings back. He also requested information on when a decision would have to be made relative to bond yields.
Mayor Waldorf stated that the Committee probably did not get as much direction as they had wanted today, but explained that Council members needed more time with this issue. Mr. Covach replied that the Committee would put the project on a back burner until they hear more from the Council.
Council Member Ward asked the staff to provide staffing costs related to this facility. Mr. Horton agreed to do a pro forma for various combinations.
The meeting adjourned at 6:50 p.m.