SUMMARY MINUTES OF A PUBLIC FORUM

ON THE HOMESTEAD PARK AQUATIC/COMMUNITY CENTER

CONCEPTUAL PLAN BY THE CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL

MONDAY, JANUARY 29, 2001, AT 7:00 P.M.

 

Mayor Rosemary Waldorf called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.

 

Council members present were Flicka Bateman, Joyce Brown, Pat Evans, Kevin Foy, Lee Pavão, Bill Strom, Jim Ward, and Edith Wiggins.

 

Staff members present were Town Manager Cal Horton, Assistant Town Managers Sonna Loewenthal and Florentine Miller, Town Attorney Ralph Karpinos, Assistant to the Manager Bill Stockard, Director of Parks and Recreation Kathryn Spatz, Recreation Planner and Program Administration Bill Webster, and Acting Town Clerk Sandy Cook.

 

Parks and Recreation Director Kathryn Spatz gave a brief outline of the background to the Conceptual Plan:

 

·        In 1996 Chapel Hill voters approved $5 million in parks bonds to be used for outdoor recreation facilities at Homestead Park, indoor aquatic facility at Homestead Park, and gymnasium at Hargraves Park. After the construction of the park and the gymnasium there remains $1.2 million.

 

·        In 1997 voters approved a $3 million Orange County parks bond, with $1 million designated for Homestead Park and the Southern Community Park, of that $145,000 was spent, leaving $855,000 remaining.

 

·        In September 1999 the Council appointed citizen representatives to the Homestead Park Aquatic/Community Center Conceptual Plan Committee,

 

·        In February 2000 the Committee held a public forum on the project, and held a series of focus group meetings with the consultant to determine needs in the community.

 

Ms. Spatz discussed the potential features:

 

·        Aquatic Space:

·        Leisure Family Pool with Play Features

·        Competitive 25-meter by 25-yard lap pool

·        Competitive 50-meter lap pool

·        Venue competitive 50-meter lap pool

·        Diving well

·        Indoor Multi-Purpose Space:

·        Community Meeting Space

·        Arts, Dance, and Cultural Instructional Programming Space

·        Gymnasium

·        Fitness Area

·        Staff/Support Space:

·        Entrance/Lounge Space

·        Locker Room Space

·        Facility Staff/Support Space

·        Parks and Recreation Administrative Office Space

 

Ms. Spatz said that in October 2001, the Committee held a work session with the Council and presented its findings, making no recommendation at that time. She displayed a graph illustrating the funds available and the estimates of costs: $2,656,000 for the core facility (including community and instructional space and all staff/support space), and potential add-ons for the core facility.

 

Ms. Spatz read a petition received too late to include with tonight’s materials, containing over 400 signatures.  The petition, she said, asks for preference for a lap-pool over any other aquatic facility at Homestead Park, in order to serve the greatest needs of the Chapel Hill Community.

 

Terry Tyson asked the Council to consider an outdoor aquatic facility. She said that an outdoor pool heated could be used for seven months of the year—April through October. She quoted days with above 70 degrees. She felt an outdoor pool would save the Town money.

 

Dr. Debbie Thorpe, physical therapist at UNC, spoke in favor of a warm-temperature indoor pool. She said that people who could use a warm-water indoor pool were very small children, young babies, pregnant mothers, families, those over the age of 55 who have a difficult time maintaining their body temperature, and all kinds of children or adults with disabilities. She said there were no public schools with pools in Chapel Hill, but Durham had four or five therapeutically-heated pools, and she felt there were more people who could use them than there were lap swimmers.

 

 Dr. Susan Attermeir, Pediatric Physical Therapist, said she worked with infants through young adults who had disabilities, and urged the Council to consider these constituencies when they were considering the pool. She said there were three constituencies: (1) individuals of all ages with disabilities who need to exercise in warm water; (2) families who have one child with a disability and other children without a disability to be together in a pool or families with young babies who cannot handle cooler temperatures; and (3) adults who have arthritis or other disabilities and need the warm water.

 

Ed Bedford said he wished to speak for an indoor aquatic facility for recreational and therapeutic programs. He said he had one autistic child and other children as well, who enjoyed the recreational qualities of warm water, especially in the colder months.

 

Bonnie Kissell requested, as an older citizen, a heated deep water area, that could be incorporated into the pool plans. She said with the Senior Center moving to the Homestead area, there would be a good opportunity for older citizens, as well as for families. Ms. Kissell added that although she paid for services at the Duke Center for Living, she would be willing to pay for services at the Homestead pool because she needed therapy for her fibromyalgia. She felt that this should receive priority over a dog park.

Dr. Poonan Pande said she supported a pool with a large shallow end that was family-friendly and could accommodate people of all age groups and abilities.  She said she had a two-and one-half-year old boy with Cerebral Palsy who needed warm-water therapy, which he receives at Duke, but it is only for patients, so her daughter cannot swim there. She said the alternatives were private pools that were not equipped for wheelchairs or strollers. She said there was a pool in Raleigh with included both a warm-water section and a lap pool.

 

Dr. Sharon Van Horn said she was a mother, a lap swimmer and a pediatrician, but was speaking from her own observation. She said there were a great many children of color who needed to learn how to swim, but most of the children on the swim teams were Caucasian. She said her hope for the pool would not be for lap swimmers but rather for the Hargraves community, which has a poorly designed pool for lap swimmers, and is not well kept; for children with disabilities; and for all children and adolescents.

 

Robin Robinson, lap swimmer, with two children on swim teams and who swim at the YMCA several evenings a week, said she felt that these kinds of swimmers would be the bread and butter of the proposed pool because they would use it so frequently. She said she was on the Board of Hollow Rock when they built the outdoor pool, and their biggest fear was that it would not be used, but it was so successful that the Board decided to heat the pool, which is open from April 1-November 15 for lap swimmers, and it was always in use.

 

Susie Schopler, who grew up in Chapel Hill and was a swimmer, said she had a son with Cerebral Palsy and a mother who had broken her hip, so the only person in her family who could use a lap pool was herself.  She said the others would need a warm-water facility, which she hoped would be built.

 

Candy Walter, a Massage Therapist, said she worked with people who had problems with movement, and much good was achieved through the use of massage therapy and aqua therapy. She urged the Council to provide a pool in Chapel Hill for warm-water therapy. She said there was room in the Town for both kinds of pools and suggested that the Estes Drive Community Center pool could be used for warm-water therapy, and the pool at Homestead Park for athletic activities.

 

Richie Miller, swim coach of East Chapel Hill High School with 55 swimmers on the swim team, said the team shares the pool at the Community Center with Chapel Hill High School swim team, and the three lanes they use are crowded with several swimmers in each lane. He said coordinating swim meets was a logistical nightmare, when one team has a meet, the other has to find another place to practice, and when there is a meet for two teams, there is a problem accommodating the parents to see their swimmers. He said he advocated a dual pool on the order of Pullen Aquatic Center, which can accommodate both those needing warm water and those needing a lap pool. He felt that the athletic swimmers and their parents would heavily support this pool, and added that there was no way for any school to financially afford to build its own pool.

 

David Miles said he strongly supported the dual pool, similar to the Pullen Aquatic Center. He said the 50-meter swimming pool would last for many years into the future and still be at a competition level. He said competitors could go into the warm water pool after they had been in the lap pool, in order to warm down. He felt that a dual pool would accommodate all the various swimming needs.

 

Sharon Call, American Red Cross Life Guard Instructor, Water Park Life Guarding Instructor, Water Safety Instructor, and a Lifeguard, a National Pool and Spa Foundation Certified Pool Operator, and Aquatic Alliance International Water Aerobics Instructor, said she had worked at many pools in the area during the past several years. She said she felt it was the right of every child to know how to swim. She supported building the Estes Drive pool into a therapeutic pool, but there could be the danger of heat exhaustion and cardiac distress. She said a warm water pool should be a smaller pool. She also felt that the children in the area should have a pool for athletics. She requested the Council not to build a water park, which would be too difficult to manage.

 

Edwina Zagami said she had children who were swimmers, one presently on the high school swim team, but, because there were not adequate swimming facilities, there had been discussion of a need to cut the size of the swim team. She felt that it was essential that children have an athletic outlet, especially during the winter, to keep them busy. She said that the high school team had not been allowed to swim at the Estes Drive facility because of overcrowding until two weeks into the swim team season.  She said the summer pools were overcrowded, and, as a lap swimmer, she sometimes could not find space in a pool. She added that when she worked as a third-grade teacher in Illinois, all the students were given the opportunity to learn how to swim, and she felt that the Town needed to provide that opportunity to all of its students.

 

Lynne Bresler said she and her children swam at the Community Center and at Heritage Hills during the summer, and she felt that family locker rooms should be an option, also better space between the changing rooms and the showers and bathrooms, and adequate space in the showers for more heads. She said she was not in favor of a 50-meter pool, but favored a warm water pool and a recreation pool, which would be the financially- supporting part of the pool. She felt there should be a shallow end so that young children could learn to swim, and a larger lobby for parents or children waiting. She also said the traffic flow needed to be considered. She favored a new facility.

 

Grey Brown said she has an 18-month-old daughter with a neuromuscular problem and she had been taking her to the pool at Duke, but she could not bring her five-year-old daughter because she was not a patient. She said she feared the pool might close, and she worried where she would take her child. She urged the Council to support a warm water pool, recognizing people with disadvantages in the community.

 

Monica Nees, a member of the Carrboro Parks and Recreation Commission but speaking for herself, urged the Council not to generalize about water temperature and age. She said she was a senior with arthritis and a hip replacement, and the last thing she would want to do was to swim laps in warm water, which could be exhausting. She urged a warm water pool, but not in place of a regular lap pool. She said the schools in Chicago had pools at least fifty years ago. She said the high schools in Chapel Hill needed their own pools because they were taking up the time and space at the Town facilities.

Thomas Young, a disabled citizen, had his thoughts vocalized by Scott Keller, saying “I think Chapel Hill needs someplace for people who have pain like me to get in the water slowly, is real warm and takes the pain away. Thank you.”

 

Krista Phillips said she had grown up swimming competitively for the Chapel Hill Swim Club, she coaches at the Chapel Hill YMCA, her children swim there, and she lap swims. She said her family goes wherever there is a pool. She had been on boards in Durham for building pools. She said the bread and butter of the pool would come from the lap swimmer and the competitive swimmers, both students and adults. She said families needed to have both kinds of pools—warm water and lap pools.  She said the pool did not have to have “fluff” but could be built for less than appeared by keeping it to a bare minimum.

 

Russell Wiener suggested that the Council make a decision on the pool as soon as possible, since there had been many meetings over several years. He suggested establishing a budget, so they could get the best pool for the money.

 

John King, swim team director at the Chapel Hill/Carrboro YMCA, with about 180 children enrolled year-round, said this was the time to build a pool and to build it right, and the biggest mistake would be to limit the vision of the project. He said the support for both pools was evident.  He felt everyone would support the project.

 

Mayor Waldorf said that, in addition to the speakers this evening, she had a letter from Henry and Betty Landsberger supporting Dr. Ponde’s request suggesting that the Town needed a warm water pool somewhere in the Town. She said she also had a petition with 469 signatures, mentioned by Ms. Spatz, in support of a lap pool.  Mayor Waldorf said she appreciated all the speakers and the Carrboro representatives who had attended the meeting.

 

Mayor Waldorf said that with remaining Town bond funds and some County bond funds committed to the Homestead Park site, there was about $2 million, and the Town of Chapel Hill could augment that to some degree, but the recommendations of the Aquatic Advisory Board plus those needs expressed by the speakers would amount to much more money than the Town had on hand.  She said one of the things for other sources of money would be the possibility that some parts of the Aquatic Pool/Community Center at Homestead Park could be part of the County Parks and Recreation Bond Issue which will be on the ballot in the fall.

 

Council Member Brown asked the staff to give some time frame for the coming process.  Ms. Spatz said the Committee had not met since the workshop, and was waiting for guidance from the Council.

 

Council Member Bateman asked Josh Gurlitz what it would cost to do a “no fluff” cinder block outside, 25 meter by 25-yard tank, and a therapeutic tank similar to the Pullen Park pool. She questioned the proposed costs as compared to the Raleigh pool, which was double the size of the pool proposed for Chapel Hill. Mr. Gurlitz said they did a comparison to the Pullen Park pool based on the figures given the Council, and the comparables were almost the same, adding 10 years of inflation, and they were both in the $8 million range.  He said the $8 million was for a 50 meter pool with diving facilities and a small warm water tank, and no other facilities for a community center or room for the Parks and Recreation Department administrative staff.  He said this would include sustainability and energy conservation features.  Mr. Gurlitz said the Chapel Hill pool included these last features, but the Pullen Park pool did not, and also included furnishings and equipment.  Mr. Horton added that the staff did not know the details of Pullen Park and how much square feet was covered, so the estimate might not match up exactly with what Mr. Gurlitz had prepared.  He said he did think it was in the ball park for a similar facility.

 

Council Member Bateman said she did not see some of the things mentioned in the estimates as being needed, such as the large locker rooms.  She asked if the design was to include two big locker rooms for women, and another two big locker rooms for men.  Mr. Gurlitz said the cost projection was for a moderate-size locker room, but there were men’s, women’s, and family’s locker rooms.  He said the facilities were not designed as a venue facility, so the designers had cut down the size of the locker rooms.

 

Council Member Brown felt it would be a good idea to contact the schools to see if the Town could work with them, and asked about the process for working with Carrboro and Orange County.  Mr. Horton said the County was trying to figure out the elements on the bond issue.

 

Ms. Spatz said that the Intergovernmental Work Group held its first meeting on December 7, 2000, and another was scheduled for February 2, 2001, and at the first meeting the comments from the work session were discussed.  Mr. Horton said the Council could decide on the process it wished to follow, and the key thing was to figure out what the approximate budget would be to have the facility the Council felt the community needed and was willing to pay for.

 

Mayor Waldorf said that eventually the Council would have to decide on what kind of a facility it wanted, and they should try to seek the cooperation of the other governments in Orange County, and whether this should be a County Bond issue request.

 

Council Member Foy questioned the total operating expenses for Option 1, on page 63 of the materials.  Mr. Gurlitz responded that the reason that it was much higher than the other options was because it was a venue facility.

 

Comparing the option total expenses, Council Member Foy stated that this would be a good reason to have a collaborative effort with Carrboro and Orange County, not just for what was built, but how it was operated.  He asked what the “Building Sinking Fund” was. Mr. Gurlitz said he would get back to Council Member Foy with the answer, because he did not know what went into those figures.

 

Council Member Foy said he wanted to know what the actual cost was for operating any of the facilities on an annual basis, and had everything been put into the figures that needed to be put in, or was there something not appropriately in the operating costs.  He said these numbers needed to be known, if the Town was going to seek assistance from the other municipalities.  Mr. Gurlitz said the operational figures were standards, but he would recast them in a way that the Council looked at budgets.

 

Council Member Evans asked whether it would be possible to find out if there may be funding, or partial funding, for the therapeutic pool from endowment funds of foundations.  Mr. Horton said the staff would try to explore this possibility.

 

Council Member Strom asked if the site costs were recouping costs from the Park Development and charging them against this cost.  Mr. Gurlitz said this was assuming that the Parks Development costs were already spent and this was the extra cost for doing the site work for this specific project.  He said the actual cost would vary when the precise footprint of the building was designed.

 

Council Member Strom asked how the Town would approach the schools, and whether there would be support from the Chapel Hill/Carrboro School District for this building. He said it would be important to know how much support the Town would get from Carrboro, as they approached the County Commissioners on the bonds.

 

Ms. Spatz said, after talking with her counterpart in the school system, she did not believe there would be much support from the schools for helping to fund the pool. 

 

Council Member Bateman suggested entering into some dialogue with the YMCA, to make some kind of financial agreement in exchange for some space.  She suggested some collaboration with the University, which had two 50-meter pools which might be used in the evening after eight o’clock.

 

Council Member Ward asked what the true cost would be for the schools’ use by the swim team. Mr. Horton said the staff would work on an estimate.  Council Member Ward said the key was to get all the governments working together, and, since the facilities in Chapel Hill are used by people in all the municipalities of Orange County, it would be reasonable for these municipalities to participate.

 

Mayor pro tem Pavão said, with all the information gathered from the public, that the Council should have its own work session in order to come up with a strategy for moving forward.

 

Council Member Bateman asked what the cost would be of a 25 x 25 pool without a moveable floor, plus a therapeutic pool like Pullen Park.  Mr. Gurlitz said he would be happy to develop that configuration.

 

Council Member Ward agreed that the Council needed to have a work session, but with other participants.

 

Mayor pro tem Pavão said the Council needed to make a decision in order to give direction to the Aquatic Advisory Board.  He said there was a $6 million shortfall at the present time, and if the Town was going to talk to the schools and other municipalities, it had to make a decision.  Mayor pro tem Pavão suggested that the staff take the suggestions and comments offered this evening so the Council could study them.

 

Mayor Waldorf asked when the County Bond Needs Committee would begin meeting.  Council Member Strom said he did not believe they had set a date.

 

Council Member Wiggins asked if it would be possible to send a videotape of the citizens’ comments this evening to the schools.  She said she felt the schools should play a major role in getting the facility up and maintaining it.  Council Member Wiggins added she would like to ask the School Board to make a sizeable contribution to the facility.

 

Mayor Waldorf agreed, and said the citizens voiced a real need in the community for the pool. She said the County and the School Boards needed to understand the needs as well.

 

Council Member Brown suggested that there was a need to contact the School Board on a higher level of authority.

 

COUNCIL MEMBER FOY MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER WARD, THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THE AQUATICS COMMISSION MAKE BRIEF PRESENTATIONS TO THE TOWN OF CARRBORO, ORANGE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND CHAPEL HILL/CARRBORO CITY SCHOOLS CONCERNING THE HOMESTEAD PARK AQUATIC FACILITY. THIS PRESENTATION WOULD INCLUDE A COPY OF TONIGHT’S VIDEOTAPE AND A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING TO ENCOURAGE COUNTY-WIDE SUPPORT IN JOINING IN A PARTNERSHIP TO HELP WITH FUNDING THIS ORANGE COUNTY FACILITY.

 

Council Member Strom said there was no community facility included in the $8 million cost estimate.

 

Mayor Waldorf said she did not think it was necessary to have a gymnasium built into the facility because of its proximity to the Smith Middle School.

 

Council Member Strom said he agreed, but felt there was a need for community space for things like classrooms, meeting space, and Park and Recreation staff.  Mr. Horton pointed out that the $8 million option was a piece prepared in response to a specific question from a Council member so the information would be available.  He said the staff was not necessarily recommending that option.

 

Carrboro Board of Aldermen Mayor pro tem Jacquie Gist said there really was a lot of sense in Carrboro that the citizens wanted a pool.  She said she believed that the facility needed to be a collaborative effort.  Mayor pro tem Gist said she would rather, as a taxpayer, pay once for a facility, and if Chapel Hill built a pool first, the citizens of Carrboro would be using it, and vice versa.  She said many of the citizens using the pool would be students, so the school system should also be involved.   Mayor pro tem Gist added she felt it should be a cooperative effort.

 

Council Member Wiggins asked, if this was to be a collaborative effort, would the design have to be reconsidered.  Mayor pro tem Gist responded that the time to ask that question would be when the presentation was made to the Carrboro Board of Aldermen.  She said the Joint Recreation Commission could be considered.

Council Member Bateman asked if the Carrboro citizens were interested in an indoor or an outdoor pool.  Mayor pro tem Gist said that most of the citizens who voiced their concerns were surprised that there was no pool at all, because most had come from urban areas which had pools, and that was their expectations.  She said her main concern, from a budgetary point of view, would be the staffing, and that was where she could see a real need for collaboration.

 

THE MOTION WAS ADOPTED UNANIMOUSLY (9-0).

 

The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.